Which Diezel has a Clearer gain?

The VH4 or the Herbert? I own the Herbert and it has an amazing sound but because of the Compression the gain is not as clear as my Framus Cobra or VHT ultralead. Is the VH4 more Compressed?

The VH4 has a slightly compressed sound on channel 3 and more on channel four.
Try replacing the primary pre-amp tubes in the Herbert.
They should be 12 AX7's now, but if you try lower power rated pre's such as 7571's, 12AT7's or 12AU7's, that will lower the gain, and then you can turn the gain control up higher getting a clearer tonality. Each of these tubes is a certain percentage lower then the 12AX7's which are rated at 100%.
I did this with my VH4 and my Einstein. I have not done this to my Herbert yet, but Diezel amps respond extremely well to pre-amp tube changes and offer many sounds available from each different tube manufacturer.
My preference is for NOS Mullards, Telefunkens and RFT's but it really depends on what sound you are trying to achieve.

Since we all hear differently, try pre-amp tubes that you have before just ordering more, unless you already know exactly what you want from the amp and the tubes that will do it for you.

Yeah I know that, You're talking to the KING of Preamp swapping
But my questions was between the Two amps..Which has a Clearer gain. So for instance, is there a difference between Herbert's Ch 2 and VH4 Ch3's gain charactersitics?

I hear a difference between ch 2 of the Herbert and ch 3 of the VH4.
The VH4 has a very desireable Marshall modded sound that really is the best channel on the VH4 to me personally for any distorted sounds. However, I hear ch 3 of the VH4 as being a bit darker sounding then ch 2 of the Herbert.

However, the Herbert can get a wider variety of this sound and covers more territory in the distorted sounds available due to the mid-shift and the natural flexibility of the voicing on ch 2 of the Herbert. I believe this channel alone makes the Herbert the better choice between the two amps for my playing.

To me, the Herbert's ch 2 can be set cleaner and still get the distortion tones needed. Think of Herbert's ch 2 as a combination of ch2 and 3 of the VH4. Ch 2 of the VH4 can stay on the Fendery side of distortion but does not really offer a lot of gain even when pushed all the way. Ch3 of the VH4 is darker and more specifically set up to be Marshall-modded.

The Herbert's extra wattage gives it more "push" and the clarity of the distortion in the lower settings still has plenty of roar to it. As the Herbert's volume is increased, the distortion appears to clear up a bit.
In the higher gain settings on ch 2 of the Herbert you can cover ch 3 of the VH4, but be able to dial it in more exactingly due to the mid-shift.
I could easily use ch 2 of the Herbert all night and never need to switch channels to get all I want from the amp. With the VH4, I would have to switch back to either ch 2 or ch 1 to get this versatility.

I don't use ch 3 on the Herbert for metal at all, but rather for an alternate variety of slightly more distorted tones I am using on ch 2. If I didn't want to switch back and forth from ch 2 and ch 3 on the Herbert, all I would have to do is reach down and turn up the gain on ch 2 of the Herbert to get into this territory.

Please keep in mind that I like singing tones with a violin type sound and play many styles of music, so I feel that the Herbert is just a bit more flexible then the VH4.

Thanks for that but I'm still confused. I heard that the VH4's distortion was Dryer and Clearer on ch 3. I assumed that this was why people said is was the stiffer amp.
In my experience this dryness usually adds to the Clarity of the Distortion. I appreciate your replys. Maybe you could clarify this a bit moer for me?

I am sorry but I do not understand what you mean by "dryness"?
The VH4 is a tighter feeling amp. By this I mean that it does not have any "sag: or "give" to it when playing, such as a Marshall or Fender might have in feeling.
The actual tone of the third channel of the VH4 is what everyone that plays the amp raves about, more then any other thing about it. It does not feel or sound dry, in that you can hear the sweet crunchiness of the tone.
The Herbert does not have the same feeling. It is not quite as tight feeling as the VH4. The notes come out feeling not as direct sounding and stiff and immediate.
However the tones on the Herbert are every bit as sweet and crunchy, dweety, and juicy. Because the Herbert has more wattage, the thrust of the notes coming out can make the sound feel more powerful if that is what you desire, but they don't have to come out feeling that way. It depends on how you set up the amp. You can get clarity in the distortion on any Diezel. While playing at a bedroom level volume, if you simply turn up the global or channel volume, you can hear the distortion start to clear up as the volume increases. If it sounds too clear to you, simply add more gain to the setting. The Diezel amps lack a fizzy, buzzy sounding thin top end. The overall character of these amps is more hefty, and meaty sounding, although by judicious use of the EQ and mid-shift controls, you can make the Herbert sound as big or thin as you desire.
I hope this helps to clarify a bit for you.
Stephen

Stephen, thank you. Yes it does help out alot. I actually do own a Herbert so I know what you mean in some of your descriptions.
By Dryness I mean, does the VH4 have less compression to it. For rhythm tones I prefer a less compressed sound ideally and I was thinking that since the VH4 is supposed to be a stiffer, tighter amp that maybe the Distortion was a little dryer and Clearer sounding. I have talked with some friends that have owned both and this is the Gist that I get.
Now, my other question is this, I really love the Herbert's tone but Honestly I can't get too many tones I love without the Midcut feature. It seems the amp is voiced too dark for my tastes and I can't get a good cutting sound.
Since the VH4 has no midcut feature, would you say it's similar to the herbert's voicing without the Midcut engaged?

Concerning compression and the VH4. Channels one and two are not compressed sounding to me, but channel three and channel four on the VH4 are compressed sounding to me due to the pre-amp tubes and how hard they are being driven on these channels, and especially on channel four.
I feel that the VH4 has more compression on channels three and four then the Herbert does on two and three, but it could be due to the Herbert having more wattage.

If you desire more brightness from the Herbert, I would try replacing the primary pre-amp tubes with Telefunkens. I have found these to brighten up any of my Diezel amps that I have tried them in. (VH4 and Einstein) I have not messed with the pre's on the Herbert yet.

Several suggestions: contact Olaf and Peter concerning your concern for the darker tones you are getting from your Herbert and ask what pre-amp tubes they might reccomend to you to brighten up the amp. AlSO power tubes can affect this as well. When I got my Herbert, Peter used EL-34's in 1&6, and 3&4. In 2&5, Peter used 6L6's. These will brighten up the tone as well and might be a deciding factor in what you are hearing. If two 6L6's are not bright enough sounding, you might go with 4 6L6's and 2 EL-34's or all 6L6's. Peter or Olaf should be able to help you get rid of the darker tones your amp has. The amp will respond extremely well to different tube changes, so don't worry, it is a very fixable situation you are going through.


Go to Watford Valve and see if their descriptions of pre-amp and power tubes include brightness qualities, or email them for their suggestions.