VH4 Inserts

1meanplexi

1meanplexi

Well-known member
Hey crew.

A question. Can the channel inserts be connect to one another? Here is why I ask.

I have an ISP decimator prorack g (non stereo mod). It currently is being run in the serial loop. I want to get it out of the loop and use the inserts on channel 2 and 3. Channel one requires no need for gating and channel 4 I use for lead work.

My thought on the connections.

Decimator out to channel two insert in.

Out of channel two insert to the input of channel 3's insert in.

Out of channel 3 insert to the in of the decimator.

As I see it, I am just continuing the signal path. But with that said....is there something inside the VH4 that makes this a no no? You guys are the best and I look forward to hearing from you. :rock: on!
 
I think all the inserts are identical and placed completely after the preamp gain stages so this should work if all the returns are attached to the same "return point". Im sure Peter can confirm this.

Do you get signal out normally with your connection that you described? If yes, go ahead and use it like Peter already recommended. If you do not, you could always connect a small mixer/loop box in front of the ISP.

By the way, I remember that when still had a ISP Decimator Prorack G (also mono version) in my setup, I had to make myself a special cable tab cut the ground in the return as it was making a nasty ground loop. But I had a rather complex setup back then so this might not be valid in your case. Seems to be common with setups where a switcher is used.
 
i.ak":lnibl2nd said:
I think all the inserts are identical and placed completely after the preamp gain stages so this should work if all the returns are attached to the same "return point". Im sure Peter can confirm this.

Do you get signal out normally with your connection that you described? If yes, go ahead and use it like Peter already recommended. If you do not, you could always connect a small mixer/loop box in front of the ISP.

By the way, I remember that when still had a ISP Decimator Prorack G (also mono version) in my setup, I had to make myself a special cable tab cut the ground in the return as it was making a nasty ground loop. But I had a rather complex setup back then so this might not be valid in your case. Seems to be common with setups where a switcher is used.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the answers guys. All I am trying to do with this set up is not have to buy a prorack with the stereo mod. I will try the connections and let you know how it turns out. Tell me about the mixer/loop in front of the ISP. Very curious about that.
 
Well I tried the connections listed above and No Go! This was confirmed by Peter in a seperate e-mail. What I am trying to do is run my Mono ISP decimator Prorack G in the inserts of channels two, three and Four. With the decimator having only one send and return, I can only connect it to one of the inserts. I would buy a Prorack G stereo version but that will only cover two of the three inserts.

Does anyone know of a looper, patch bay or other type of unit that would allow me to use my decimator and connect the channel inserts? This has been making me crazy. I looked at this from Voodoo http://www.voodoolab.com/gcx.htm my thought is that I could run the decimator into this and the other in's and out's from the Voodoo to the channel inserts. (For now) I would not need the footswitch since my intention would be to leave the decimator on all the time. Thanks guys and hope to hear from you.
 
Without trying it it's hard to say but I *think* you could get the GCX to do it.

You would need to out each VH4 insert in to a GCX loop and patch to the next loop, then patch to the gate, then patch each of the inserts back into the VH4 - I *think* :)

So:

Loop1 return = Insert 2 out -(patch loop 1 out to loop 2 in)->
Loop2 return = Insert 3 out -(patch loop 2 out to loop 3 in)->
Loop3 return = Insert 4 out -(patch loop 3 out to loop 4 in)->
Loop4 send/return to ISP in/out -(patch loop 4 out to loop 5 in)->
Loop5 send = Insert 2 in -(patch loop 5 out to loop 6 in)->
Loop6 send = Insert 3 in -(patch loop 6 out to loop 7 in)->
Loop7 send = Insert 4 in

Then turn on loops 1-7

That might work, it's an awful lot of patching and cords to go wrong though ;-) I'd talk to the guys at Voodoo first to be sure - they are really helpful!

Ross
 
webrthomson":2lew23lr said:
Without trying it it's hard to say but I *think* you could get the GCX to do it.

You would need to out each VH4 insert in to a GCX loop and patch to the next loop, then patch to the gate, then patch each of the inserts back into the VH4 - I *think* :)

So:

Loop1 return = Insert 2 out -(patch loop 1 out to loop 2 in)->
Loop2 return = Insert 3 out -(patch loop 2 out to loop 3 in)->
Loop3 return = Insert 4 out -(patch loop 3 out to loop 4 in)->
Loop4 send/return to ISP in/out -(patch loop 4 out to loop 5 in)->
Loop5 send = Insert 2 in -(patch loop 5 out to loop 6 in)->
Loop6 send = Insert 3 in -(patch loop 6 out to loop 7 in)->
Loop7 send = Insert 4 in

Then turn on loops 1-7

That might work, it's an awful lot of patching and cords to go wrong though ;-) I'd talk to the guys at Voodoo first to be sure - they are really helpful!

Ross
Click to expand...

I did call Voodoo and they were amazing, they pulled up the VH4 back shot, the Prorack and the GSX and knew exactly what I was going for. What is even more amazing, is that you are DEAD nuts on with how it should be connected. Thank You :thumbsup: !
 
No bother dude - glad to help - GCX is great but a bit of bear till you get to know it :)

VH4%20Inserts_zps1ps6t8jo.jpg


Diagram makes lift easier too!
 
webrthomson":14hsdcis said:
No bother dude - glad to help - GCX is great but a bit of bear till you get to know it :)

VH4%20Inserts_zps1ps6t8jo.jpg


Diagram makes lift easier too!
Click to expand...

Yes it does!!!! I do better with pictures :D !
 
1meanplexi":2cxh6lnb said:
One question on this set up. Is there a chance for a ground loop hum?????
Click to expand...

It's a good question and I don't know the answer, my gut feeling is no as you are really just extending the inserts but I'd run that one by the Voodoo guys before you drop cash on the GCX.

Also check with them that you can turn loops on and off without the ground control (or pro) - I'm not sure if you can?

Ross
 
Surprised you need one actually, amp to amp and power from the wall is different case to case but I don't even need a noise suppressor with mine. Having said that it's certainly the quietest Diezel I've owned but even the noisier ones weren't bad enough that I would only need it on the super high gain which is usually only a max of two channels on any given Diezel anyway. Do you use dirt pedals on the clean and 2 or something?
 
I can confirm this works as this is how I had my ISP Decimator set up with GCX until I moved it back to serial loop. I had ground-loop and thus I mentioned that special cable I made that had the ground lifted at other end (return if I remember correctly). But this is not necessarily a problem for you as I had really complicated setup with cables going back and forth multiple units. The GCX is still there for other purposes, but ISP is gone so unfortunately I cannot try this for you. But eliminating that ground loop is not too tricky after you figure out where it comes from.

Basically a smaller patching or mixer unit that has at least one "loop" and accepts 3 inputs and sends 3 outputs would be enough for you if you do not have other pedals or units to be connected to all 8 loops of GCX. Bellow are few other examples, but there are other options as well.
http://voodoolab.com/hex_switcher.htm
http://www.glab.com.pl/midi_4xloop_en
http://www.rjmmusic.com/minilinemixer.php
http://www.rjmmusic.com/minieffectgizmo.php
 
Hey_bert_whtcha_doin_bert":23xky7zn said:
Surprised you need one actually, amp to amp and power from the wall is different case to case but I don't even need a noise suppressor with mine. Having said that it's certainly the quietest Diezel I've owned but even the noisier ones weren't bad enough that I would only need it on the super high gain which is usually only a max of two channels on any given Diezel anyway. Do you use dirt pedals on the clean and 2 or something?
Click to expand...

I run the gain at 2:00 for channel 2 and just a bit higher on channel 3. Nonetheless, it is really F*n noisy. Decimator whacks that noise right out. Like you, I would rather not use any type of gate. The conversation may move to what is making it so noisy, I have it powered by a Furman Voltage regulator, new power and pre's. As always, I would listen to suggestions.
 
Probably would be a good time to contact peter then. I mean I've had some that are noisier then others but nothing you would need a gate for on channel 2 on down, 3(I only run it at two o'clock max myself though) would depend on the power and 4 would need it because I juice it for leads. This vh4 I have now I only run the gain at noon-11:30 for leads the voicing seems more fluid now and I don't even need the gate for that. I had a herbert once that had the most noise out of them all. I had power problems at home I got fixed because it kept eating the electrolytic caps after I figured that out it didn't do it again before I sold it to try another amp. You may just have some bad filters. I'd email Peter for sure.
 
What year your VH4 is? If it is older it can have a "hum trimmer", a small potentiometer inside that you may need to adjust (similar to bias pot). These tend to break and in newer models they have been replaced by resistors. My VH4 is from 2005 and the hum trimmer blew due to power tube failure. I asked Peter to send me those resistors and I replaced it - No problems since.
 
1meanplexi":1z8wm86b said:
Hey crew.

A question. Can the channel inserts be connect to one another? Here is why I ask.

I have an ISP decimator prorack g (non stereo mod). It currently is being run in the serial loop. I want to get it out of the loop and use the inserts on channel 2 and 3. Channel one requires no need for gating and channel 4 I use for lead work.

My thought on the connections.

Decimator out to channel two insert in.

Out of channel two insert to the input of channel 3's insert in.

Out of channel 3 insert to the in of the decimator.

As I see it, I am just continuing the signal path. But with that said....is there something inside the VH4 that makes this a no no? You guys are the best and I look forward to hearing from you. :rock: on!
Click to expand...

UPDATE - 2-23-2015. 1st I would like to thank everyone who commented with all the suggestions, diagrams and such. In the end, I ordered a ISP Decimator Prorack G with the Stereo mod. I can run it through the channel inserts of 2 & 3 on my 4. I will make a clip once I receive it. Thanks again guys you are the F'N best :thumbsup: !!!!!
 
1meanplexi":jfrg8qmc said:
1meanplexi":jfrg8qmc said:
Hey crew.

A question. Can the channel inserts be connect to one another? Here is why I ask.

I have an ISP decimator prorack g (non stereo mod). It currently is being run in the serial loop. I want to get it out of the loop and use the inserts on channel 2 and 3. Channel one requires no need for gating and channel 4 I use for lead work.

My thought on the connections.

Decimator out to channel two insert in.

Out of channel two insert to the input of channel 3's insert in.

Out of channel 3 insert to the in of the decimator.

As I see it, I am just continuing the signal path. But with that said....is there something inside the VH4 that makes this a no no? You guys are the best and I look forward to hearing from you. :rock: on!
Click to expand...

UPDATE - 2-23-2015. 1st I would like to thank everyone who commented with all the suggestions, diagrams and such. In the end, I ordered a ISP Decimator Prorack G with the Stereo mod. I can run it through the channel inserts of 2 & 3 on my 4. I will make a clip once I receive it. Thanks again guys you are the F'N best :thumbsup: !!!!!
Click to expand...

You are most welcome - now get out and rock that VH4 :rock:
 
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