Did I get scammed? Peter please check this

MrFlexx

MrFlexx

Active member
I recently added a post about being a new proud owner of a Diezel Herbert MKII with a Diezel 412FC. I've only been playing with this amp with as low volume as possible ever since I bought it and I thought it sounded great noodling around on channel 2 with the switch on minus. Now when trying all channels and playing around with all switches and raising the volume I found something strange. There's some kind of mid-frequency that can't be dialed out that makes it sound like I play thru a coffee can. This makes it impossible getting a tight and/or crispy rhythm sound. I've own loads of amps (over some 25 years), most in the high end range, but never did I run into this kind of strange bump making rhythm impossible to play. Even if I dial it in towards extreme settings with no treble, no mids and no bass, or vice versa the muddy mid-bump is there. As I stated before it's not that prominent at the lowest possible volume of the amp...but above this it's always there, even on channel 2 with the switch on minus.

I've been looking around at the forum, and correct me if I'm wrong..but shouldn't it be Ruby Tubes KT77 in it as standard? When I checked it now it's JJ KT77 in it. Could it be the amp is broken? If so, I bought the amp broken from the distributor :gethim: May they have changed the tubes and didn't bias it? Please help me out with this. I didn't buy a Diezel to play whisper loud in the bedroom. But all volume above that is unusable except from channel 1.
 
The ruby tubes are correct, they're just a tube vendor that relabeled the JJ's. If it has a "dome" top on the tube... It's a JJ. All others that would be modern production are flat.
 
Ok! So the brand of the tubes seems right. But any thoughts about the strange noise bump coloring the sound in a bad way?
My thoughts about it is that something is wrong with the amp in some way. Been listening to loads of videos and clips of the Herbert and I've never heard a bad sound.
Great cleans with loads of headroom, awesome crunch, tight rhythm, liquid lead...it's all there, but not on my amp. My amp sounds really bad when passing 7:30 clockwise of the Master Volume on all channels but the Clean.
 
Maybe you just don't like the VH4. It's not for everyone. It's also very different from the Herbert.

One way to know is to A/B it with another VH4, or have another guitarist that knows VH4s really well listen to it.
 
squank":3o6m3hff said:
Maybe you just don't like the VH4. It's not for everyone. It's also very different from the Herbert.

One way to know is to A/B it with another VH4, or have another guitarist that knows VH4s really well listen to it.
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It's not the VH4 I have. It's the Herbert. I don't believe it has to do with liking or not. I've owned about 20 different amps and never had a problem getting a descent sound out of them. The problem here is that it can't get clear notes from it except from the higher notes. The sound is very unfocused, muddy and blurry and I've only heard that from amps in the beginners range, like amps in the $200-500 price range. Even the Peavey Bandit have string separation and clearness light years ahead of this sound. To me it sounds like something's broken or bad with my amp. I just don't know what.

I know my way around dialing in amps as I've been working in studios for over 20 years. I know every amp is different, but this particular amp of mine is bad/broken in some way. Will try the amp with a different cab this weekend to rule it out.
 
MrFlexx":2d9pamw9 said:
squank":2d9pamw9 said:
Maybe you just don't like the VH4. It's not for everyone. It's also very different from the Herbert.

One way to know is to A/B it with another VH4, or have another guitarist that knows VH4s really well listen to it.
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It's not the VH4 I have. It's the Herbert. I don't believe it has to do with liking or not. I've owned about 20 different amps and never had a problem getting a descent sound out of them. The problem here is that it can't get clear notes from it except from the higher notes. The sound is very unfocused, muddy and blurry and I've only heard that from amps in the beginners range, like amps in the $200-500 price range. Even the Peavey Bandit have string separation and clearness light years ahead of this sound. To me it sounds like something's broken or bad with my amp. I just don't know what.

I know my way around dialing in amps as I've been working in studios for over 20 years. I know every amp is different, but this particular amp of mine is bad/broken in some way. Will try the amp with a different cab this weekend to rule it out.
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Ok, my bad misreading your post. I was reading another thread on the VH4 and had that on my brain.

Your situation is even more on point with my experience. Like you, I have owned a truckload of great amps, including a VH4, Hagen, and a Herbert. I couldn't sell my Herbert fast enough. It's the only high end amp that I didn't even bother to profile into my Kemper because I coudn't get a tone I liked out of it. I know it gets lots of love, but I didn't care for it.

I had the same reaction you did about not being able to get clear tones out of it. I tried several cabs with different speakers (V30s, Greenbacks, and T-75s), and nothing did the trick. I sold it after owning it for less than a month.
 
i would say its a tube thing.

All channels of the herbert are super focused. A vid would def help. Good luck and hope you sort it out quick.
 
shadow070":2isd68rh said:
i would say its a tube thing.

All channels of the herbert are super focused. A vid would def help. Good luck and hope you sort it out quick.
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A tube thing is what I think too. Do you think it's the power amp tubes or the preamp tubes a combination? Maybe a rectifier tube? I can't afford buying a complete set of power tubes and preamp tubes now when I've just bought this amp and the cab. It would be great if it's (only) problems with the tubes and not the amp itself, but I think it's bad business for Diezel if the distributor did sell this new with faulty tubes.
 
MrFlexx":33olczed said:
shadow070":33olczed said:
i would say its a tube thing.

All channels of the herbert are super focused. A vid would def help. Good luck and hope you sort it out quick.
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A tube thing is what I think too. Do you think it's the power amp tubes or the preamp tubes a combination? Maybe a rectifier tube? I can't afford buying a complete set of power tubes and preamp tubes now when I've just bought this amp and the cab. It would be great if it's (only) problems with the tubes and not the amp itself, but I think it's bad business for Diezel if the distributor did sell this new with faulty tubes.
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Diezel, in the UK anyway, covers tubes from the point of sale for three months. If you have a bad preamp tube you can normally tell by rolling a replacement, known good, preamp tube through until the offending sound goes away. If you don't have a spare tube then taping them gently with a pencil from V1 - V6 and the offending tube will normally make itself known by making horrible noises.

The preamp tubes are:

V1 Used by all channels
V2 Used by channel 3
V3 Used by all channels
V4 Mixer & Loop Driver
V5 Return Driver
V6 Phase Inverter

If its a power tube has failed then there should be a light on in the back of the amp telling you which tubes have failed - it's simply a matter of replacing the tubes and fuse - it's always advisable to re-bias the amp if you are replacing the power tubes and on the Herbert its very easy to do this, but you need to be happy working on the inside of an amp and there are voltages in there that can kill you if you don't know what you are doing.

I can certainly tell you that my Herbert sounds fantastic at all volumes, obviously much better loud and I don't hear any of the offending mid range you are describing, not as tight as the VH4 but you should still get a nice tight tone.

Unfortunately it's just a fact of life that modern tubes are not up to the quality of tubes produced in the 50's and 60's and the fail rate for some of them is quite high - the moral of this story is always carry a spare (or set of spares in terms of power tubes).

Hope that helps ;)
 
Thanks for the response. No lights at the back, so the power tubes should be fine then!? I will try changing V1, V3 and V6 because they're used on all channels. Hope this will fix the problem. Been talking to the distributor and they won't cover it even though I found this problem after less than a week. Their reason? It was on sale! Shouldn't matter because it was still new and not a used one. One thing is certain...I will never buy from them again.
 
MrFlexx":31z82l44 said:
Thanks for the response. No lights at the back, so the power tubes should be fine then!? I will try changing V1, V3 and V6 because they're used on all channels. Hope this will fix the problem. Been talking to the distributor and they won't cover it even though I found this problem after less than a week. Their reason? It was on sale! Shouldn't matter because it was still new and not a used one. One thing is certain...I will never buy from them again.
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Sounds like a plan! I usually do the preamp tubes first simply because I'm lazy and don't want to have to re-bias and yes I'd hit the shared tubes first too given you are having the same issue on multiple channels!

If the lights are not on for the power tubes it means that they are (probably) good but don't rule them out either as they can be failing but not have blown the fuse. Failing power tubes tend to sound like wind or something frying in my experience, not what you are describing.

That seems rather an own goal by the distributor given what a new preamp tube costs verses what a new Diezel amp costs, even if on sale! I can understand them not wanting to re-tube the whole amp, but they could at least let you find the offending 12AX7, then send you a new one :doh:

If you do need tubes I'd highly recommend Laura at ValveQueen - I always bought from her when I lived in the states and never had any issues and I believe that she carries the ruby preamp tubes recommended by Peter.

Best of luck - let us know how you get on!
 
You mentioned it sounded like a coffee can. Do you have anything plugged into the loop by chance?
 
phil b":btpspmjk said:
You mentioned it sounded like a coffee can. Do you have anything plugged into the loop by chance?
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It's there both with or without anything in the loop. Been trying with various cables too, both guitar cables and speakers cables. No change.
 
MrFlexx":3iba0oo7 said:
phil b":3iba0oo7 said:
You mentioned it sounded like a coffee can. Do you have anything plugged into the loop by chance?
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It's there both with or without anything in the loop. Been trying with various cables too, both guitar cables and speakers cables. No change.
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HHmm... Usually when people describe a can type of sound its usually a phase thing going on with the loop. Have you tried new preamp tubes yet? I would try changing those before changing power tubes based on what your describing.
 
MrFlexx":2lnhqmmg said:
Peter Diezel":2lnhqmmg said:
Hi MrFlexx,

what is the serial number of the amp ?

Thanks,
Peter
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Hi! Peter!

The serial number is 001/1756

Cheers
Thomas
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The amp was shipped to Nya Musik on February 18th, 2013.
Please contact them for repair.

Cheers,
Peter
 
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