VH4 LOOPS

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Paradigma_bizarro

New member
hi there,

I read in the manual that the range of the fx loops are from ... to +10db so I guess it can run line level rack units.

my question are.

are the 2 loops, serie and parallel, the same level?

it said they are Hi-z outputs so isn't that instrument level

I read the volume level of each channel is what controls the ouptup of the fx loop, where (9:00, 11:00 4:00 etc) does it reaches line level?

I am asking so I can use it the best with my eventide Eclipse

Thanks
 
I have an VH4 and Eventide Eclipse that have been paired together for many years.
First I have no idea if it reaches line level. I just use it and it sounds great.
To me sounds best in the parallel loop, no problem getting enough signal.
I like the mix knob , If I want less / more effect in a certain song I just reach over and turn the mix down rather than making another preset.

If you need more input volume , you can turn up the input volume inside the Eclipse.
Under the master settings.
 
rickenbacker198":phyimvhv said:
I have an VH4 and Eventide Eclipse that have been paired together for many years.
First I have no idea if it reaches line level. I just use it and it sounds great.
To me sounds best in the parallel loop, no problem getting enough signal.
I like the mix knob , If I want less / more effect in a certain song I just reach over and turn the mix down rather than making another preset.

If you need more input volume , you can turn up the input volume inside the Eclipse.
Under the master settings.
Click to expand...

on the levels do you ever go upper than 0db?
 
Paradigma_bizarro":zu08xz8b said:
rickenbacker198":zu08xz8b said:
I have an VH4 and Eventide Eclipse that have been paired together for many years.
First I have no idea if it reaches line level. I just use it and it sounds great.
To me sounds best in the parallel loop, no problem getting enough signal.
I like the mix knob , If I want less / more effect in a certain song I just reach over and turn the mix down rather than making another preset.

If you need more input volume , you can turn up the input volume inside the Eclipse.
Under the master settings.
Click to expand...

on the levels do you ever go upper than 0db?
Click to expand...


No I usually run the eclipse master level at 0db , input peaks around -12db.
I usually have my channel volumes at 12:00 or lower.
 
Paradigma_bizarro":3omsdw6c said:
hi there,
I read the volume level of each channel is what controls the ouptup of the fx loop, where (9:00, 11:00 4:00 etc) does it reaches line level?
Click to expand...
Those are probably the best times to down a bowl of Wheat Chex with sliced bananas and strawberries before you fire that bad boy up.
 
rickenbacker198":r4wg76qo said:
I have an VH4 and Eventide Eclipse that have been paired together for many years.
First I have no idea if it reaches line level. I just use it and it sounds great.
To me sounds best in the parallel loop, no problem getting enough signal.
I like the mix knob , If I want less / more effect in a certain song I just reach over and turn the mix down rather than making another preset.

If you need more input volume , you can turn up the input volume inside the Eclipse.
Under the master settings.
Click to expand...

The problem though with the Eclipse in the parallel loop is comb filtering issues.
I have a Orville and its the same.

What I mean is that the signal is split, and while it is undergoing AD/DA conversion in a digital device that takes some milliseconds. Enough at least that once back in the amp there is a delay between both signals when mixed which will yield some frequencies to cancel each other. The effect is not much audible with delays but pretty much a problem on chorus/flange/phase FX.

Haven't found a solution yet other than going through the serial fx loop of my Orville. Dumb thing though is that this is really degrading the sound since with 44.1khz conversion the amp sounds awful. On higher conversion rates like 96k the sound is excellent but some FX will not work anymore due to DSP limitations....
 
TheRealJTM45":2mr2sptz said:
rickenbacker198":2mr2sptz said:
I have an VH4 and Eventide Eclipse that have been paired together for many years.
First I have no idea if it reaches line level. I just use it and it sounds great.
To me sounds best in the parallel loop, no problem getting enough signal.
I like the mix knob , If I want less / more effect in a certain song I just reach over and turn the mix down rather than making another preset.

If you need more input volume , you can turn up the input volume inside the Eclipse.
Under the master settings.
Click to expand...

The problem though with the Eclipse in the parallel loop is comb filtering issues.
I have a Orville and its the same.

What I mean is that the signal is split, and while it is undergoing AD/DA conversion in a digital device that takes some milliseconds. Enough at least that once back in the amp there is a delay between both signals when mixed which will yield some frequencies to cancel each other. The effect is not much audible with delays but pretty much a problem on chorus/flange/phase FX.

Haven't found a solution yet other than going through the serial fx loop of my Orville. Dumb thing though is that this is really degrading the sound since with 44.1khz conversion the amp sounds awful. On higher conversion rates like 96k the sound is excellent but some FX will not work anymore due to DSP limitations....
Click to expand...


With the Eclipse I've never noticed anything more than a subtle change in tone with the VH4 parallel loop?
You can test it easily by turning the mix from 0% to 100%
Same for the conversion of you want to run it in series , the eclipse is a hair darker sounding... really subtle.
Many guys can't hear the difference between 44 & 96k conversion with studio monitors I think it's nearly impossible through a guiar cab.

OP before you get too concerned how to fix the problem , make sure you have one.
 
rickenbacker198":3duxv6ud said:
I just use it and it sounds great.
Click to expand...
Excellent advice! :yes:

Folks tend to get all rapped up and fidget way too much in this high-end gear zone (Diezel) and forget to use the most important instrument they have - their ears.

Ear.jpg


A famous chef once said "If it looks good, then eat it".
 
rickenbacker198":2sm9xgjy said:
TheRealJTM45":2sm9xgjy said:
rickenbacker198":2sm9xgjy said:
I have an VH4 and Eventide Eclipse that have been paired together for many years.
First I have no idea if it reaches line level. I just use it and it sounds great.
To me sounds best in the parallel loop, no problem getting enough signal.
I like the mix knob , If I want less / more effect in a certain song I just reach over and turn the mix down rather than making another preset.

If you need more input volume , you can turn up the input volume inside the Eclipse.
Under the master settings.
Click to expand...

The problem though with the Eclipse in the parallel loop is comb filtering issues.
I have a Orville and its the same.

What I mean is that the signal is split, and while it is undergoing AD/DA conversion in a digital device that takes some milliseconds. Enough at least that once back in the amp there is a delay between both signals when mixed which will yield some frequencies to cancel each other. The effect is not much audible with delays but pretty much a problem on chorus/flange/phase FX.

Haven't found a solution yet other than going through the serial fx loop of my Orville. Dumb thing though is that this is really degrading the sound since with 44.1khz conversion the amp sounds awful. On higher conversion rates like 96k the sound is excellent but some FX will not work anymore due to DSP limitations....
Click to expand...


With the Eclipse I've never noticed anything more than a subtle change in tone with the VH4 parallel loop?
You can test it easily by turning the mix from 0% to 100%
Same for the conversion of you want to run it in series , the eclipse is a hair darker sounding... really subtle.
Many guys can't hear the difference between 44 & 96k conversion with studio monitors I think it's nearly impossible through a guiar cab.

OP before you get too concerned how to fix the problem , make sure you have one.
Click to expand...

Take care. You won't hear comb filtering necessarily only just by going from 0 to 100 and back on the mix level. If you add the converted signal back to the original comb filtering will occur anyway. The question is only if the conversion latency is within a limit such that your ears cannot identify it. I do believe that the Eclipse has a faster conversion / less latency due to newer chips which makes it probably fast enough not to cause comb filter issues when mixing the dry and wet signals back in the amps loop.

On a side note I can tell you that there is an audible difference between 44.1 and 48khz when using old converter chip technology and 96khz is a different ballpark altogether. That old converter grittyness

Anyway, as I am using my Orville along with a Vh4s the stereo output might add to my problem....
 
I use Eclipse with VH4 in my main rig and another one with Herbert back home. I have had to put both to serial loop to overcome phasing issues in parallel loop. It is strongly dependent on the preset/FX in concern though, but if you really want to put those big and lush sounds of Eclipse programs into use I would not see any other option than going into serial loop. And I have had this setup for over 10 years so have made some detailed testing on it. I am not saying any way is right or wrong, but sharing my experiences about this.
 
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