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V30's vs K100's
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=182932
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Author:  rickenbacker198 [ Sat, Oct 08, 2016 9:25pm ]
Post subject:  V30's vs K100's

I've never had the chance to try k100's.
For the Diezel Amps
How k100's do they compare & contrast with the standard v30s?

Author:  clark81 [ Sun, Oct 09, 2016 9:03am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Take a look here my friend

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=178848

This is about cabs incl those speakers, but I think you ll understand.

K-100 sounds more hifi than V30, it doesn't break up easily and I would say it is a lot cleaner. It is more even also within the frequency range.

http://celestion.com/product/1/vintage_30/
http://celestion.com/product/19/G12K_100/

Check this out also

Author:  Vin Diezel [ Sun, Oct 09, 2016 2:56pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

They sound like g75t basically. The standard in marshal cabs.

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 09, 2016 6:18pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

I've been rockin G12-K100s for about 6-7 years in a closed back 2x12 and absolutely love em. As stated already they have a more even frequency response. They handle low end like a fuckin champ!

I had an pair of V30s in another cab and they were the made in England V30s before production went to China, not saying the Chinese made V30s are bad, and they were awesome as well.

Compared to the G12K-100s the V30s of course had a mid peak that was pretty sweet if you like mids, I do :D , but they couldn't handle low end chugin and palm mutes anywhere near as well as the G12K-100s do.

I want to get another V30 and run it paired with the G12K-100 :thumbsup:

I guess my point is both rock, but G12K-100s can handle all the bass and chug you care to throw at them and still remain TIGHT!

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 09, 2016 6:22pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

I might add that I recently got rid of a Diezel Herbert and for the amount of subsonic low end mayhem that the Herbert produces the G12K-100s were the perfect match! They could handle every ounce of low end that amp could muster from the bass and depth knob and still not fart out!

Author:  GtarLover [ Sun, Oct 09, 2016 8:32pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Personally, I've been using a FULL stack where the bottom 4X12 has V30's and the top 4X12 has K100's. Totally LOVE to combo. As was mentioned, the K100's stay tighter and have a more modern feel. The V30's add the mid-hump and has a more familiar "classic" feel and tone.
Together they provide the best of both worlds, IMO
Of course, YMMV

Author:  Vin Diezel [ Tue, Oct 11, 2016 9:02am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

G12T75s I meant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9acguJjsgDg

Author:  Ventura [ Tue, Oct 11, 2016 1:23pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

G12K100 are awesome cones. Very neutral and powerful. They "hold" like none other IMHO. From thunder to sweet highs - incredible.
V30 offer bite. They're not neutral in my experience. They add an element of cut in live settings, definitely a mid-bump when recorded.

For transparency - G12K100
For live settings and cut - V30

Unkle Mo

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Tue, Oct 11, 2016 5:47pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

^^^
K100s :rock:

Author:  Vin Diezel [ Wed, Oct 12, 2016 6:03am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

I used to use k100 for some time but went back to v30s. In the end it does not really matter, as long as you do not play sevenstring metal. Then I'd use k100s.

Author:  Scuba.Duba [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 1:35am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

rickenbacker198 wrote:
I've never had the chance to try k100's.
For the Diezel Amps
How k100's do they compare & contrast with the standard v30s?

Unless your using them for a Saxophone or a Trombone . . .

Image

Author:  Scuba.Duba [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 1:41am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

clark81 wrote:
Take a look here my friend
K-100 sounds more hifi than9 V30, . . .

Just for the record (no pun intended) vinyl "hi (high) fi (fidelity)" dropped of the cliff many years ago where we now have "wi (wireless) fi (fidelity)".

Author:  RJF [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 12:06pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

I much prefer the V30, and the Mesa version at that. I do have a couple Diezel cabs with the X pattern of 100's and V30's, but my experience has been that V30's handle low end much better than the K100. For one the magnet is bigger on a V30. But, my K100's may be hurt, IDK. I will say when I bought my first german made Diezel cab from a member here ( I won't list any names) the wiring was completely screwed up and the speakers were all out of phase. Even after I fixed the wiring, the 4 K100's farted out fairly easy with low tuning.

Author:  rickenbacker198 [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 1:27pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Thanks for all the info guys, lots of different experiences and tastes.

Do the k100's sound more open than the v30's?
V30's being a more congested sounding speaker?

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 1:30pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

RJF wrote:
I much prefer the V30, and the Mesa version at that. I do have a couple Diezel cabs with the X pattern of 100's and V30's, but my experience has been that V30's handle low end much better than the K100. For one the magnet is bigger on a V30. But, my K100's may be hurt, IDK. I will say when I bought my first german made Diezel cab from a member here ( I won't list any names) the wiring was completely screwed up and the speakers were all out of phase. Even after I fixed the wiring, the 4 K100's farted out fairly easy with low tuning.


You sure you didn't mean it the other way around?

If your K100s are farting out before the V30s, or farting out at all period, man there's something wrong with em bro!

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't G12K-100 magnets way bigger than that of a Vintage 30 magnet?

Author:  Vin Diezel [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 1:50pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

You're right. K100 have more power, more low end, more clarity and the magnet is the biggest from Celestion.

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:07pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Vin Diezel wrote:
You're right. K100 have more power, more low end, more clarity and the magnet is the biggest from Celestion.


That's the way I perceive it.

I no longer have V30s to visually compare here but yeah it was my understanding as well that G12K-100s offered the largest magnet of all Celestions.

I've been playing through G12K-100s for the last 6-7 years and have played tons of amps through my closed back 2x12 and have yet to get them to flub on the low end. I even maxed the bass and deep knob on the Herbert I had just to see how low they could go and there was 0 farting out. That was at pretty low volumes though, but still...

Not to derail the thread here, but how do you like or did you like that Lil Fokker Vin D.?

Author:  Vin Diezel [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:13pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

The Fokker is my main amp. Great clean, great Crunch and HiGain. Loop is inaudible. 6505 is collecting dust.

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:26pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

By inaudible, you mean quiet?

Author:  Vin Diezel [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:28pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

I mean it does not change the sound in any way. You cannot even tell if you use the loop or not.
The 6505 loop causes a little bit of volume and treble loss.

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:37pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

^^^
Got ya. Cool.
Thinking this might be the next one to try.

I'm assuming since your 6505 is sitting idle the Lil Fokker must handle the heavy stuff pretty well then.

Author:  Vin Diezel [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 3:48pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Fokker is discontinued. VH2 is the next thing.

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 4:05pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Shit.

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 4:07pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Vin Diezel wrote:
Fokker is discontinued. VH2 is the next thing.


Might have to PM you to ask some details about the Fokker; been really interested in these and I've seen em used.

Author:  RJF [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 9:12pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

MetalHeadMike wrote:
RJF wrote:
I much prefer the V30, and the Mesa version at that. I do have a couple Diezel cabs with the X pattern of 100's and V30's, but my experience has been that V30's handle low end much better than the K100. For one the magnet is bigger on a V30. But, my K100's may be hurt, IDK. I will say when I bought my first german made Diezel cab from a member here ( I won't list any names) the wiring was completely screwed up and the speakers were all out of phase. Even after I fixed the wiring, the 4 K100's farted out fairly easy with low tuning.


You sure you didn't mean it the other way around?

If your K100s are farting out before the V30s, or farting out at all period, man there's something wrong with em bro!

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't G12K-100 magnets way bigger than that of a Vintage 30 magnet?


I'm not confused one bit. When I got my first used German Diezel cab it came with 4 K100's. The PO had the wiring screwed up and they were out of phase. I fixed the wiring and got everything back in phase but they had trouble farting out at this point. I then pulled two of them out, pulled two V30's from another cab, and thought to myself how I could visually see the magnet section of the speaker larger on the V30 over the K100. Once I swapped in two V30's in combo with two existing K100's the low end fart out went away.

Obviously, my experience is different than others. I'm assuming running a speaker out of phase must do damage to them, as that is the only thing I can think of why mine had low end issues.

You can see in the pic that the V30 magnet is definitely not smaller than a K100.
Image

Author:  Scuba.Duba [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 9:25pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

MetalHeadMike wrote:
By inaudible, you mean quiet?

inaudible: in·au·di·ble, /ˌinˈôdəb(ə)l/, adjective, in·au·di·ble, in-aw-duh-buh, unable to be heard.

Ex: "Jinny explains that (the love is all drowned in [ inaudible ]).”

Author:  RJF [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 10:57pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

I'm actually thinking about making a big speaker change in my Diezel cabs. I don't like the chinese V30's all that much. I'm thinking I'm going to dump them, along with the K100's and go all old Mesa V30's in one cab, and I'm thinking about tying WGS Retro 30's in my 2nd cab. Not sure in my third.

I currently have:
X pattern of K100's/Mesa V30's in cab 1
X pattern of K100's/Chinese V30's in cab 2
All Chinese V30's in cab 3.

Which sounds the best? Most of my amps seem to like the K100/Mesa V30 cab the best, except for my VH4. I don't think it meshes with K100's at all and likes all V30's.

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 11:06pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

RJF wrote:
MetalHeadMike wrote:
RJF wrote:
I much prefer the V30, and the Mesa version at that. I do have a couple Diezel cabs with the X pattern of 100's and V30's, but my experience has been that V30's handle low end much better than the K100. For one the magnet is bigger on a V30. But, my K100's may be hurt, IDK. I will say when I bought my first german made Diezel cab from a member here ( I won't list any names) the wiring was completely screwed up and the speakers were all out of phase. Even after I fixed the wiring, the 4 K100's farted out fairly easy with low tuning.


You sure you didn't mean it the other way around?

If your K100s are farting out before the V30s, or farting out at all period, man there's something wrong with em bro!

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't G12K-100 magnets way bigger than that of a Vintage 30 magnet?


I'm not confused one bit. When I got my first used German Diezel cab it came with 4 K100's. The PO had the wiring screwed up and they were out of phase. I fixed the wiring and got everything back in phase but they had trouble farting out at this point. I then pulled two of them out, pulled two V30's from another cab, and thought to myself how I could visually see the magnet section of the speaker larger on the V30 over the K100. Once I swapped in two V30's in combo with two existing K100's the low end fart out went away.

Obviously, my experience is different than others. I'm assuming running a speaker out of phase must do damage to them, as that is the only thing I can think of why mine had low end issues.

You can see in the pic that the V30 magnet is definitely not smaller than a K100.
Image


I stand corrected regarding magnet size aren't I the lazy fucker who didn't just go to the Celestion website :lol: :LOL: Diameter and magnet weight are identical. However, I will hold my position on there being something wrong with the K100s if they were farting out on ya.

From the Celestion site:

Vintage 30
General Specifications
Nominal diameter12", 305mm
Power rating60Wrms
Nominal impedanceAvailable 8Ω or 16Ω
Sensitivity100dB
Chassis typePressed steel
Voice coil diameter1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil materialRound copper
Magnet typeCeramic
Magnet weight50oz, 1.42kg
Frequency range70-5000Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs75Hz
DC resistance, ReAvailable 7.3Ω or 12.9Ω

G12K-100
Nominal diameter12", 305mm
Power rating100Wrms
Nominal impedance8Ω
Sensitivity99dB
Chassis typePressed steel
Voice coil diameter1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil materialRound copper
Magnet typeCeramic
Magnet weight50oz, 1.42kg
Frequency range80-5500Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs85Hz
DC resistance, Re7Ω

Author:  MetalHeadMike [ Sun, Oct 16, 2016 11:09pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Scuba.Duba wrote:
MetalHeadMike wrote:
By inaudible, you mean quiet?

inaudible: in·au·di·ble, /ˌinˈôdəb(ə)l/, adjective, in·au·di·ble, in-aw-duh-buh, unable to be heard.

Ex: "Jinny explains that (the love is all drowned in [ inaudible ]).”


Awe you so funny :gethim:

Author:  Vin Diezel [ Mon, Oct 17, 2016 2:25am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

MetalHeadMike wrote:
Vin Diezel wrote:
Fokker is discontinued. VH2 is the next thing.


Might have to PM you to ask some details about the Fokker; been really interested in these and I've seen em used.


Just go ahead!

Author:  Vin Diezel [ Mon, Oct 17, 2016 2:35am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

RJF wrote:
I'm actually thinking about making a big speaker change in my Diezel cabs. I don't like the chinese V30's all that much. I'm thinking I'm going to dump them, along with the K100's and go all old Mesa V30's in one cab, and I'm thinking about tying WGS Retro 30's in my 2nd cab. Not sure in my third.

I currently have:
X pattern of K100's/Mesa V30's in cab 1
X pattern of K100's/Chinese V30's in cab 2
All Chinese V30's in cab 3.

Which sounds the best? Most of my amps seem to like the K100/Mesa V30 cab the best, except for my VH4. I don't think it meshes with K100's at all and likes all V30's.


I don't think it's a good a idea to mix speakers. Tried it for some time. V30s and K100s move differently, which will cause phase issues when playing loud.
If you dial in the amp so that one speaker sounds good, the other one does not because the mids are so different.
I'd use the same speakers in one cab.

PS: The reason for the flubbiness of v30s if pushed hard is the thinness of the paper.

You might try Eminence cv 75.

Author:  rickenbacker198 [ Tue, Nov 01, 2016 10:28pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

RJF wrote:
I'm actually thinking about making a big speaker change in my Diezel cabs. I don't like the chinese V30's all that much. I'm thinking I'm going to dump them, along with the K100's and go all old Mesa V30's in one cab, and I'm thinking about tying WGS Retro 30's in my 2nd cab. Not sure in my third.

I currently have:
X pattern of K100's/Mesa V30's in cab 1
X pattern of K100's/Chinese V30's in cab 2
All Chinese V30's in cab 3.

Which sounds the best? Most of my amps seem to like the K100/Mesa V30 cab the best, except for my VH4. I don't think it meshes with K100's at all and likes all V30's.



I have 0 experience with the k100's
But lots with v30s

Mesa's version is also my favorite, they seem to have a more modern voice.

If you do the swap let us know, I've wondered about putting mesa's v30 my standard v30 FL412.

I'm not for mixing speakers in the same closed cab, seems to lessen the punch and impact. IMO.

Author:  Ventura [ Mon, Nov 14, 2016 10:00pm ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

The K100s are bomber.

If you're doing most of your playing live and have done so with V30s, you're going to notice a difference for sure in the cut, as mentioned above. But if you want a full, rich, "this is my amp 100% of the way" tone without as little sonic meddling as possible? The G12K will kick ass. They are incredible cones, men.

Author:  ΕΖnick [ Thu, Nov 17, 2016 7:20am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Hi guys! New to the forum! About two years ago I got hyped with the K100s so I put them in my 2x12 engl cab. I always compare speakers in two instances...live and recording. When playing live, I think the K100s sounded fuller than the V30, but lacking that low mid punch the V30s deliver (to my ears). Recordingwise they are very different to my ears. I had to change the mic placement a lot in order to get good-decent results with the K100s. I also think that the K100s probably don't like the sm57 very much :)
Bottom line, I think they are both great speakers, but quite different soundwise. I'd say that the K100s are an "acquired" taste, then again good tone is subjective. I'm not dissapointed by them by any means though.

Author:  Speeddemon [ Tue, Nov 22, 2016 7:20am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

I've been through a few G12-K85's (the K100's older brother, but essentially the same thing).

I've noticed that there are versions without a ribbed cone. These sound noticeable smoother/darker/duller than the ribbed ones.
I have a great 16 Ohm one (ribbed), but at the time I didn't found out about these differences. I've mixed this with a V30 in a 2x12 cab=nice full and tight tone.
Then I was trying to get a few 8 Ohm versions and I found they lacked the awesomeness of the 16 ohm one. After closer inspection, I noticed the cones were different=ribbed vs non-ribbed.

Then I got another 8 ohm, looking out specifically to have a ribbed cone again and this one sounds awesome again. I quickly sold the non-ribbed ones to a jazz player and a young guy on a shoestring budget.

I'm still planning to acquire a 2nd 8 ohm version and do an X-pattern in my Engl 4x12" Pro with the V30's...

@EZNick, have you tried a mix in your Engl 2x12 cab? How's your D-Moll with that cab by the way?

Author:  ΕΖnick [ Sun, Feb 26, 2017 9:07am ]
Post subject:  Re: V30's vs K100's

Speeddemon wrote:
I've been through a few G12-K85's (the K100's older brother, but essentially the same thing).

I've noticed that there are versions without a ribbed cone. These sound noticeable smoother/darker/duller than the ribbed ones.
I have a great 16 Ohm one (ribbed), but at the time I didn't found out about these differences. I've mixed this with a V30 in a 2x12 cab=nice full and tight tone.
Then I was trying to get a few 8 Ohm versions and I found they lacked the awesomeness of the 16 ohm one. After closer inspection, I noticed the cones were different=ribbed vs non-ribbed.

Then I got another 8 ohm, looking out specifically to have a ribbed cone again and this one sounds awesome again. I quickly sold the non-ribbed ones to a jazz player and a young guy on a shoestring budget.

I'm still planning to acquire a 2nd 8 ohm version and do an X-pattern in my Engl 4x12" Pro with the V30's...

@EZNick, have you tried a mix in your Engl 2x12 cab? How's your D-Moll with that cab by the way?


4 month bump lol!

I haven't tried mixing them mostly because the V30s I have are 16ohm and the K100s are 8ohm. If I ever get my hands on an 8ohm V30 I'll definitely try mixing them.

I've played with the D-moll through various cabs:

Mesa 2x12 (black shadow V30s)
Randall 4x12 (celestion 70/80)
Harley Benton 2x12 (V30s)
Framus cobra 2x12 (V30s)
Engl 2x12 - my current cab

Recordingwise, the d-moll sounds great through all.

Rehearsal wise, the Engl is the best. It delivers the necessary punch - crunch to cut through the rest.

I just posted a clip too, check it out viewtopic.php?f=14&t=187121

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