Rig-Talk

Guitars, Gear, Tone!
It is currently Wed, Aug 23, 2017 2:53am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 07, 2017 3:54am 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB
User avatar

Joined: Sun, Apr 27, 2008 4:02am
Posts: 127
Location: Bath, UK
Hey guys,

I just got hold of a Hagen, and channels 1,2 and 4 are blowing me away. I'd love to know if anyone has attempted or can offer insight into the idea of adding/modding the bright cap on the channel 3 to get a tighter response with less saturated low end when using humbuckers for heavy rhythms. I've experienced the change that bright cap values can make and I'm very confident it's exactly what I'm looking for here. The richness and feel of the amp is so killer, I feel like if this mod was possible it would turn the Hagen into a 10/10 for me.
Thoughts?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 07, 2017 1:53pm 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB
User avatar

Joined: Sun, Apr 27, 2008 4:02am
Posts: 127
Location: Bath, UK
OK, I went ahead and did the mod this afternoon and it did exactly what I hoped! I tried a 220pF in parallel with the stock 47pf (267pF total) that's on the Ch3 gain pot and got an instantly more "Marshall"y response with super bouncy and tight palm mutes and a top end bite - sounded amazing with high output humbuckers but I wanted to back it off a tiny bit to get a tad more of the trademark Diezel saturated low mids and richness as well as have the amp still play nicely with lower output pickups or single coils. With that in mind I clipped the stock 47pF cap to get just the 220pF on its own - this felt pretty much like the ideal middle ground to my ears where the Diezel character was clearly there but the response was starting to head in the direction you'd expect from a 5150 or similar, which is just glorious for heavy rhythm work and to be honest more in line with what I expected from the Hagen's design goal of being a more modern and tight Diezel.
Bottom line, this mod has made the amp damn near perfect in my eyes, and with the stock Channel 2 and 4 there are still channels that have the full thick saturation that the amp was designed with. I might go as far as to have a switch drilled to toggle the bright cap just in case I want it gone for particular situations, though I think there is enough gain overlap with Ch2 and 4 to where there would always be away of getting that sound without needing Ch3.

Having read a lot of the negative comments that people have made about the Hagen not being tight enough, I feel like this simple mod would totally rectify those concerns and turn it into a keeper. Perhaps not everyone would want the 220pF - maybe a 150pF would be be more of a middle ground if they wanted to play it safer (but I'd stress the 220pF isn't drastically changing what's there). I wonder if Diezel might consider having it as a stock option.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 08, 2017 12:39am 
Offline
Plank Cranker Wanker
User avatar

Joined: Sat, Dec 09, 2006 1:06am
Posts: 1401
Location: Granite City, IL
Kinda interests me in getting a Hagen again. That was the only thing I really didn't care for the third channel was very dull compared to the VH4 in the upper mids. I certainly loved the "power" it had and spread.


Last edited by Hey_bert_whtcha_doin_bert on Thu, Mar 09, 2017 2:12am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 08, 2017 12:43am 
Offline
Supah Stah
User avatar

Joined: Thu, Sep 04, 2008 9:14am
Posts: 3983
Cool!
Marked for later if I ever score a Hagen

_________________
https://www.reverbnation.com/beforeitwaswritten


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 08, 2017 1:24am 
Offline
Plank Cranker Wanker
User avatar

Joined: Sat, Dec 09, 2006 1:06am
Posts: 1401
Location: Granite City, IL
Hey Nolly can you make a vid by chance? I kinda want to hear it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 08, 2017 4:39am 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB
User avatar

Joined: Sun, Apr 27, 2008 4:02am
Posts: 127
Location: Bath, UK
Yep here's a video -

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntgsk1ogs3zh3 ... d.MOV?dl=0

I start on Ch3 (no boost), then switch between Ch2 and 3 to show the difference in response (really noticeable even over iPhone!), then finally boost Ch3 with a Maxon OD808. It's really quiet but I'm using a Two Notes Reload to attenuate so the power section is doing something decent.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 08, 2017 7:56am 
Offline
Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Sat, Mar 21, 2009 12:03pm
Posts: 5870
Location: Indiana
Just sold hagen, dmoll just inched her out in tone, wonder if this would have helped though i dont miss the size and weight at all.

_________________
:rock:




Great transactions with: Dexter Jackson, Pfapin05, Donbarzini, Ratter, Guitarslinger, Sixstring, Empire Prod, Motorpud, Iamthejoker,9841507,Ultron, Diagrammatiks, Juggernaut, studio289, Steve K., Dmtnt, Rhequiem, Craftm1, Red Witch, Reilly, Bucksears, ajr2454, Glip22, jabberwocker!, glassjaw7, Khoi, mizati20, ibanez4life SZ, Glide-on, Prime rib, Droptrd, Bwgintegra,Bognerluv,ben hur,TjSlice, Flizzo,Bronco, leib10, Vchizzle, Captain Stinko, Warhead78


WTF you reading this tiny shit for anyway?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 08, 2017 9:28am 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Aug 21, 2009 10:28am
Posts: 556
Might check the cap value on my D-Moll. You say it was on gain pot, not volume pot? I tried to do a search on bright cap mod but of course no Diezel posts. One site talked about cap on volume pot.

Edit: Just checked D-Moll. Nothing on pot tabs except leads going to board.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 08, 2017 5:30pm 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB
User avatar

Joined: Sun, Apr 27, 2008 4:02am
Posts: 127
Location: Bath, UK
No doubt at all that having a cap on there would improve the response in a way that would suit players looking for a tight and heavy rhythm sound from humbucker guitars. Same goes for the D-Moll or any other amp adding a cap or changing the value of one that is already there will yield very noticeable feel and response changes that can turn an amp you don't like into one you love. My opinion of course, YMMV


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 10, 2017 6:46am 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB
User avatar

Joined: Sun, Apr 27, 2008 4:02am
Posts: 127
Location: Bath, UK
Crunchtime wrote:
Might check the cap value on my D-Moll. You say it was on gain pot, not volume pot? I tried to do a search on bright cap mod but of course no Diezel posts. One site talked about cap on volume pot.

Edit: Just checked D-Moll. Nothing on pot tabs except leads going to board.


Yup, on the gain pot so that essentially you're allowing an amount of high frequencies to bleed across the gain pot, the cut-off frequency determined by the capacitor value (the higher the value, the more low cut). By reducing the relative amount of low end hitting the saturation stages, you get a progressively tighter, less fuzzly sound.
When the pot is turned really low, you're mainly hearing the treble frequencies that are bypassing the pot, but as you turn the pot higher you're allowing more of the full range signal to blend in until when the pot it fully open the treble bleed is basically not doing anything. For this reason you have to balance the capacitor value against where you normally set the pot - if you typically use it in its lower range you should use a conservative cap value so you don't end up with a very thin sound; if you have the pot set wide open most of the time, you'll need a high value capacitor so its effect can still be heard.

Putting a capacitor across the channel volume pot will still act as a treble bleed in the same way as above, but since in the case of the Diezel this is after the preamp gain stages you won't be affecting how tight the drive sound is, just creating a situation where your overall tone gets brighter the lower you set the channel volume. The gain pot is essentially just an input volume control, while the channel volume is the preamp output volume control.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 10, 2017 6:15pm 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB

Joined: Sun, Nov 16, 2008 9:58am
Posts: 116
Nolly we gotta hear this beast loud! The tones you managed to get on Periphery albums are insane so if you're saying this amp is near perfect I can't even imagine how good it is in person. What speakers are in your zilla cab?

_________________
EBMM JPXI 6 w/ Rosewood Neck
EBMM Arctic Dream Majesty 6
Jackson HT7 Matte Blue Frost
Axe FX II and Atomic CLR
EBMM JPXI 7(Stolen http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/290749-stolen-jpxi-7-tampa-bay-area-fl.html)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 12, 2017 3:32am 
Offline
Diezel Amplification
User avatar

Joined: Sun, Jul 02, 2006 5:43am
Posts: 4654
Nolly wrote:
Hey guys,

I just got hold of a Hagen, and channels 1,2 and 4 are blowing me away. I'd love to know if anyone has attempted or can offer insight into the idea of adding/modding the bright cap on the channel 3 to get a tighter response with less saturated low end when using humbuckers for heavy rhythms. I've experienced the change that bright cap values can make and I'm very confident it's exactly what I'm looking for here. The richness and feel of the amp is so killer, I feel like if this mod was possible it would turn the Hagen into a 10/10 for me.
Thoughts?


Please send an email to service (at) diezelamplification (dot) com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 27, 2017 7:33am 
Offline
Hack

Joined: Wed, Dec 16, 2015 11:21am
Posts: 23
Y'know, this sounds like it might have made me keep my Hagen. Although my buddy Theo is putting it to much better use than I these days. Interesting you say it should work on the D-Moll.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 27, 2017 7:58am 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB
User avatar

Joined: Tue, Sep 17, 2013 5:01am
Posts: 149
Location: Below sea level
This sounds exactly what my Hagen would need. Maybe I can take to to Peter for some tuning :)

_________________
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 27, 2017 12:20pm 
Offline
Journeyman NOOB

Joined: Tue, Dec 04, 2012 12:34pm
Posts: 239
It would be interesting what Peter himself has to say.

_________________
Peavey 6505
Diezel Lil Fokker
Diezel 412 FL V30
Diezel 212 FL V30
ESP Horizon NT II
ESP Horizon NT II
USACG Strat Kinmans


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group