Rig-Talk

Guitars, Gear, Tone!
It is currently Mon, Dec 11, 2017 2:53am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 19, 2017 3:31am 
Offline
Plank Cranker Wanker

Joined: Sat, Oct 31, 2009 1:09pm
Posts: 1458
-former Herbert owner, I'm thinking I need a DIEZEL, but I want some less refined, gritty,


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun, Mar 19, 2017 6:55am 
Offline
Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Sat, Mar 21, 2009 12:03pm
Posts: 6058
Location: Indiana
Out of the hagen is more raw than your herbert as is fokker and dmoll however all are pretty refined comparative to say a marshall.

_________________
:rock:




Great transactions with: Dexter Jackson, Pfapin05, Donbarzini, Ratter, Guitarslinger, Sixstring, Empire Prod, Motorpud, Iamthejoker,9841507,Ultron, Diagrammatiks, Juggernaut, studio289, Steve K., Dmtnt, Rhequiem, Craftm1, Red Witch, Reilly, Bucksears, ajr2454, Glip22, jabberwocker!, glassjaw7, Khoi, mizati20, ibanez4life SZ, Glide-on, Prime rib, Droptrd, Bwgintegra,Bognerluv,ben hur,TjSlice, Flizzo,Bronco, leib10, Vchizzle, Captain Stinko, Warhead78


WTF you reading this tiny shit for anyway?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 20, 2017 12:13pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Thu, Jan 19, 2012 2:13pm
Posts: 443
Location: Phoenix, AZ
sg guy wrote:
-former Herbert owner, I'm thinking I need a DIEZEL, but I want some less refined, gritty,


I agree. When I think of Diezel raw and unpolished are certainly not the adjectives that come to mind! :D I have had the VH4 , Herbert, Dmoll and currently the Hagen. I think all Diezels are a very refined tone. IMHO.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 20, 2017 1:59pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee

Joined: Tue, Dec 04, 2012 12:34pm
Posts: 274
I think there are two things that set the Diezel sound apart:
The mids are very soft and the bass is compressed, which makes for easy recording when playing palm mutes. Quite the opposite of raw.
When using a 6505, you have to compress between 150 and 250 Hz to get the bass under control in the mix.
The presence control starts quite low, so if you turn up presence on a Diezel, you get more high mids, but that is not what a Diezel is supposed to sound like.

_________________
Diezel VH4 KT77
Peavey 6505
Diezel Lil Fokker
Diezel 412 FL V30
Diezel 212 FL V30
ESP Horizon NT II
ESP Horizon NT II
USACG Strat Kinmans


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 21, 2017 9:40pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Wanker
User avatar

Joined: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 4:43pm
Posts: 1491
Location: Rockin a LP in to a Diezel
Based on popular opinion of the words "raw and unpolished" I'd recommend the Paul or Big Max. Otherwise, buy a Wizard. They are about as open and raw sounding as an amp gets. Or an old Marshall SL Plexi.

_________________
Excellent transactions with: sjk (S: Soldano SLO 100), glip22 (S: Gibson Historic LP R7), MrPlexi (S: Suhr PT100), Metalhead (S: PRS SC-250 AP), killertone (S: Diezel Herbert), tlingen (S: Engl SE EL34), fuzzyguitars (S: PRS Tremonti Trem & Gibson Historic LP R8), xzyryabx (S: Engl Savage 120), Devilinside (S: Randall Satan), DarkCide: (S: ESP M-II), Mizati20 (S: PV 6505+), bartmcartman (S: Bogner XTC 101B), thaifoo (S: Engl Savage 120), lester (S: Bogner UberKab 4X12), adrenalinejunky (S: Fryette UltraLead), gbsmusic (S: Fender EVH Wolfgang), savant421 (S: Bogner UberKab 4X12 cab), ams2ek (S: Mills Acoustics 4X12 cab), blastcap (S: Gibson Explorer), braciola (S: PV EVH Wolfgang USA), splawner (S: Wampler Plextortion), mhenson42 (S: Celestion V30 speakers), Gsxrbusa (S: Jackson SL2H), El Mariachi (S: Suhr Koko Boost), and many more.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 22, 2017 12:23pm 
Offline
Hack
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Dec 23, 2016 8:25pm
Posts: 18
Maybe Einstein in Texas mode (Mode 2 Channel 1)

_________________
Diezel Einstein 50W Head
Marshall JCM 800 2203 2x12" Combo from 1988 (aka 4103)
Diezel Salt and Pepper 4x12 Rearloaded (Eminence ME12 1008PE)
Marshall 2061-CX Cabinet
Charvel So Cal MIJ
Gibson SG Faded
Epiphone Les Paul AFD


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 22, 2017 1:09pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 3:41pm
Posts: 358
Location: There and Back
I have a VH4 and a Hagen and had an Einstein in the past, in my opinion all these amps can sound quite raw. The thing is that most of the folks scoop the mids too much and use high output pickups, in that scenario they are not so raw sounding. With a good amount of mids dialed in and medium/low output pickups one can get a raw sound out of these amps without problems. In fact this is why I really like these amps cause they can sound more polished or more raw depending on the pickups, eq, and cab. IMHO


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 22, 2017 3:20pm 
Online
Plank Cranker

Joined: Tue, Aug 13, 2013 5:50pm
Posts: 990
Location: NYC
ProgFree wrote:
I have a VH4 and a Hagen and had an Einstein in the past, in my opinion all these amps can sound quite raw. The thing is that most of the folks scoop the mids too much and use high output pickups, in that scenario they are not so raw sounding. With a good amount of mids dialed in and medium/low output pickups one can get a raw sound out of these amps without problems. In fact this is why I really like these amps cause they can sound more polished or more raw depending on the pickups, eq, and cab. IMHO

I agree to an extent but they'll still never get as raw or organic as something like the old mark series boogies or older marshalls no matter what you do even with more mids and lower output pickups (which is what I do). If you're picky about getting a very raw sound (like me) then diezels wont satisfy you. That being said, I'm still very interested in trying a Paul and Big Maxx.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 23, 2017 1:26pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 12:19am
Posts: 716
Location: Atlanta GA
braintheory wrote:
ProgFree wrote:
I have a VH4 and a Hagen and had an Einstein in the past, in my opinion all these amps can sound quite raw. The thing is that most of the folks scoop the mids too much and use high output pickups, in that scenario they are not so raw sounding. With a good amount of mids dialed in and medium/low output pickups one can get a raw sound out of these amps without problems. In fact this is why I really like these amps cause they can sound more polished or more raw depending on the pickups, eq, and cab. IMHO

I agree to an extent but they'll still never get as raw or organic as something like the old mark series boogies or older marshalls no matter what you do even with more mids and lower output pickups (which is what I do). If you're picky about getting a very raw sound (like me) then diezels wont satisfy you. That being said, I'm still very interested in trying a Paul and Big Maxx.


So many subjective adjectives...when I think of "raw" I also think of mids. I have the Hagen and Herbert and mids are definitely there for the dialing, but agree there are other "more middy" amps for sure.

_________________
Amps: KSR Artemis II - Diezel Hagen & Herbert - Bogner Uberschall - Axe-FX II
Guitars: Suhr MS7 - BlacKat 7 - Ibanez PGM 301 - KxK Sii 7 - Suhr Std Pro
stratjacket on Sevenstring
gtkdev on TGP​

Good deals with Green Pro Am, Holy-Diver, Blessedadversary777, Adam of Angels, Base341, bwgintegra ...


http://ashenreign.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 23, 2017 1:46pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee

Joined: Tue, Dec 04, 2012 12:34pm
Posts: 274
But not high mids! Those sound raw and make your ears bleed.
Think Marshall, Laney, 6505, Rectifier, SLO.

_________________
Diezel VH4 KT77
Peavey 6505
Diezel Lil Fokker
Diezel 412 FL V30
Diezel 212 FL V30
ESP Horizon NT II
ESP Horizon NT II
USACG Strat Kinmans


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 23, 2017 3:12pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee

Joined: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 7:26pm
Posts: 286
"Open", "organic" "touch responsive" are the words I most often use to describe the amps that I tend to gravitate towards. And for me, the Diezel Paul fits the bill.

I definitely love the raw sound of a good Marshall amp, but I also like a bit more versatility and a sound that is a touch more refined. For that, I find the Diezel Paul to be just about perfect. For the OP, channel 2 with gain below noon is pretty open, raw and aggressive sounding. When you turn up the gain too much, it becomes too soft and you lose too much edge. Keep the volume up and the gain down to about 11 o'clock and you can definitely get pretty raw.

Here's a quick clip I made a few weeks ago. It can at least give you an idea of the kind of sounds you can get on Channel 2.



https://app.box.com/s/7hp7t0x3ju9rlkto9lyf00shp69t2skd


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 24, 2017 5:10am 
Offline
Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Sat, Mar 21, 2009 12:03pm
Posts: 6058
Location: Indiana
Vin Diezel wrote:
I think there are two things that set the Diezel sound apart:
The mids are very soft and the bass is compressed, which makes for easy recording when playing palm mutes. Quite the opposite of raw.
When using a 6505, you have to compress between 150 and 250 Hz to get the bass under control in the mix.
The presence control starts quite low, so if you turn up presence on a Diezel, you get more high mids, but that is not what a Diezel is supposed to sound like.



THIS.

_________________
:rock:




Great transactions with: Dexter Jackson, Pfapin05, Donbarzini, Ratter, Guitarslinger, Sixstring, Empire Prod, Motorpud, Iamthejoker,9841507,Ultron, Diagrammatiks, Juggernaut, studio289, Steve K., Dmtnt, Rhequiem, Craftm1, Red Witch, Reilly, Bucksears, ajr2454, Glip22, jabberwocker!, glassjaw7, Khoi, mizati20, ibanez4life SZ, Glide-on, Prime rib, Droptrd, Bwgintegra,Bognerluv,ben hur,TjSlice, Flizzo,Bronco, leib10, Vchizzle, Captain Stinko, Warhead78


WTF you reading this tiny shit for anyway?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 24, 2017 11:58am 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee

Joined: Tue, Dec 04, 2012 12:34pm
Posts: 274
Good that you agree. Then my views are not too far out.

_________________
Diezel VH4 KT77
Peavey 6505
Diezel Lil Fokker
Diezel 412 FL V30
Diezel 212 FL V30
ESP Horizon NT II
ESP Horizon NT II
USACG Strat Kinmans


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 24, 2017 1:16pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 3:41pm
Posts: 358
Location: There and Back
When I mean having mids I mean at times an eq Brent Hinds of Mastodon style ;)

Attachment:
Diezel Masto .jpg
Diezel Masto .jpg [ 181.36 KiB | Viewed 1888 times ]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Mar 24, 2017 1:44pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee

Joined: Tue, Dec 04, 2012 12:34pm
Posts: 274
Mids at 1 o'clock. That is one unconventional setting. ;)

_________________
Diezel VH4 KT77
Peavey 6505
Diezel Lil Fokker
Diezel 412 FL V30
Diezel 212 FL V30
ESP Horizon NT II
ESP Horizon NT II
USACG Strat Kinmans


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat, Mar 25, 2017 5:27pm 
Offline
Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Sat, Mar 21, 2009 12:03pm
Posts: 6058
Location: Indiana
Diezel mids knob is low mids, not weird if you want a bigger rather than clearer sound. They go for more vintage inspired tones.

_________________
:rock:




Great transactions with: Dexter Jackson, Pfapin05, Donbarzini, Ratter, Guitarslinger, Sixstring, Empire Prod, Motorpud, Iamthejoker,9841507,Ultron, Diagrammatiks, Juggernaut, studio289, Steve K., Dmtnt, Rhequiem, Craftm1, Red Witch, Reilly, Bucksears, ajr2454, Glip22, jabberwocker!, glassjaw7, Khoi, mizati20, ibanez4life SZ, Glide-on, Prime rib, Droptrd, Bwgintegra,Bognerluv,ben hur,TjSlice, Flizzo,Bronco, leib10, Vchizzle, Captain Stinko, Warhead78


WTF you reading this tiny shit for anyway?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 27, 2017 12:24pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee

Joined: Tue, Dec 04, 2012 12:34pm
Posts: 274
I tried it out and listened to the recordings.

a) Standard Diezel tone: everything noon.
b) Raw Diezel tone: Presence full, treble 0, everything else stays noon.

Option b) is maybe good for rehearsal - it adds more of the upper mid frequencies that other amps have and that I often eq out...

_________________
Diezel VH4 KT77
Peavey 6505
Diezel Lil Fokker
Diezel 412 FL V30
Diezel 212 FL V30
ESP Horizon NT II
ESP Horizon NT II
USACG Strat Kinmans


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 29, 2017 2:30pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 3:41pm
Posts: 358
Location: There and Back
It is just a matter of not scooping the mids. The mids of the vh4 are pretty wideband when compared to other amps. And quite dynamical when interacting with the bass and treble. Just recorded this clip with a mesa std cab and a sm57 to show this. First take everything at noon with mids little over noon. Second take scooped mids at around 10 O'clock. Do you hear the big difference?
People tend to scoop the mids too much probably due to habits of the times when Marshal were the only thing around. To get a great tone with a more raw character out of the Diezels one should not be scooping the mids. IMHO YMMV

Attachment:
mids vs scoop VH4.mp3 [1.39 MiB]
Downloaded 110 times


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 29, 2017 2:55pm 
Offline
Supah Stah
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Apr 09, 2010 10:45pm
Posts: 2850
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
littleguitars wrote:
"Open", "organic" "touch responsive" are the words I most often use to describe the amps that I tend to gravitate towards. And for me, the Diezel Paul fits the bill.

I definitely love the raw sound of a good Marshall amp, but I also like a bit more versatility and a sound that is a touch more refined. For that, I find the Diezel Paul to be just about perfect. For the OP, channel 2 with gain below noon is pretty open, raw and aggressive sounding. When you turn up the gain too much, it becomes too soft and you lose too much edge. Keep the volume up and the gain down to about 11 o'clock and you can definitely get pretty raw.

Here's a quick clip I made a few weeks ago. It can at least give you an idea of the kind of sounds you can get on Channel 2.



https://app.box.com/s/7hp7t0x3ju9rlkto9lyf00shp69t2skd



I agree with this /\. I have owned a Herbert, D-Moll and now this Paul. It is the most raw or organic out of the bunch. The mids just come through like a freight train on this amp. :thumbsup:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 30, 2017 1:20pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee

Joined: Tue, Dec 04, 2012 12:34pm
Posts: 274
ProgFree wrote:
It is just a matter of not scooping the mids. The mids of the vh4 are pretty wideband when compared to other amps. And quite dynamical when interacting with the bass and treble. Just recorded this clip with a mesa std cab and a sm57 to show this. First take everything at noon with mids little over noon. Second take scooped mids at around 10 O'clock. Do you hear the big difference?
People tend to scoop the mids too much probably due to habits of the times when Marshal were the only thing around. To get a great tone with a more raw character out of the Diezels one should not be scooping the mids. IMHO YMMV

Attachment:
mids vs scoop VH4.mp3



Yes and no. No matter where you turn the mids knob, this knob does not add those marshally high mids. The presence knob does a bit on a Diezel.

_________________
Diezel VH4 KT77
Peavey 6505
Diezel Lil Fokker
Diezel 412 FL V30
Diezel 212 FL V30
ESP Horizon NT II
ESP Horizon NT II
USACG Strat Kinmans


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 06, 2017 1:51pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker
User avatar

Joined: Wed, May 27, 2009 3:56am
Posts: 954
I havent played Schmidt, vh2, Paul, Max or Dmoll.

Out of Fokker, herbie, hagen, einey, vh4 Id say Einey.

_________________
Image

Good deals: Neeklaus, SoulIncision, King Guitar, DevilInside, PeteLaramee, brocksteady70, PaulyPanacea, hunter, apophis, tcrash, Mizati20, Bxlxaxkxe, Orbis_Mortis, PBgas, Thaifoo, Metalhead, ampjunkie, Shiny_Surface, 232Cap, orangekick, MindCrime, vangkm007, halebox, Gsxrbusa, tarkken, Joe Gamble, nevusofota


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 07, 2017 7:10am 
Offline
Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Sat, Mar 21, 2009 12:03pm
Posts: 6058
Location: Indiana
Einstein. Been playing them against each other again. NONE are the typical marshall rae but Einstein seems the most raw, ipen and vintage sounding.

Also pay attention to model years. Older models of many of the original amps are darker.

_________________
:rock:




Great transactions with: Dexter Jackson, Pfapin05, Donbarzini, Ratter, Guitarslinger, Sixstring, Empire Prod, Motorpud, Iamthejoker,9841507,Ultron, Diagrammatiks, Juggernaut, studio289, Steve K., Dmtnt, Rhequiem, Craftm1, Red Witch, Reilly, Bucksears, ajr2454, Glip22, jabberwocker!, glassjaw7, Khoi, mizati20, ibanez4life SZ, Glide-on, Prime rib, Droptrd, Bwgintegra,Bognerluv,ben hur,TjSlice, Flizzo,Bronco, leib10, Vchizzle, Captain Stinko, Warhead78


WTF you reading this tiny shit for anyway?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue, May 02, 2017 10:02pm 
Offline
Supah Stah

Joined: Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:56pm
Posts: 2947
Location: Northern Virginia
I often ran the VH4 with the depth knob almost completely down and the presence knob around noon or higher. Obviously didn't sound like a Marshall but that way the amp had a good amount of "bark" and seemed to open up a bit. Didn't have as much thump of course.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue, May 02, 2017 11:27pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Wanker
User avatar

Joined: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 4:43pm
Posts: 1491
Location: Rockin a LP in to a Diezel
cardinal wrote:
I often ran the VH4 with the depth knob almost completely down and the presence knob around noon or higher. Obviously didn't sound like a Marshall but that way the amp had a good amount of "bark" and seemed to open up a bit. Didn't have as much thump of course.


I like to keep my depth around 10:00 and the presence around 2:00 on my VH4... add more volume and pick harder if you need more chunk. Works just fine too.

:yes: :yes: :yes:

_________________
Excellent transactions with: sjk (S: Soldano SLO 100), glip22 (S: Gibson Historic LP R7), MrPlexi (S: Suhr PT100), Metalhead (S: PRS SC-250 AP), killertone (S: Diezel Herbert), tlingen (S: Engl SE EL34), fuzzyguitars (S: PRS Tremonti Trem & Gibson Historic LP R8), xzyryabx (S: Engl Savage 120), Devilinside (S: Randall Satan), DarkCide: (S: ESP M-II), Mizati20 (S: PV 6505+), bartmcartman (S: Bogner XTC 101B), thaifoo (S: Engl Savage 120), lester (S: Bogner UberKab 4X12), adrenalinejunky (S: Fryette UltraLead), gbsmusic (S: Fender EVH Wolfgang), savant421 (S: Bogner UberKab 4X12 cab), ams2ek (S: Mills Acoustics 4X12 cab), blastcap (S: Gibson Explorer), braciola (S: PV EVH Wolfgang USA), splawner (S: Wampler Plextortion), mhenson42 (S: Celestion V30 speakers), Gsxrbusa (S: Jackson SL2H), El Mariachi (S: Suhr Koko Boost), and many more.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, May 03, 2017 7:55am 
Offline
Supah Stah

Joined: Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:56pm
Posts: 2947
Location: Northern Virginia
^ cool! Even with the depth off, the VH4 has more low end than something like my JCM 800. So there's definitely still plenty of thump and chunk. And yeah, as long as the gain is at a reasonable level, the VH4 is very responsive to pick attack.

That amp really is a masterpiece IMHO. Tone. Features. Flexibility. Durability. Yet somehow very simple and easy to use.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, May 03, 2017 9:55pm 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 6:21pm
Posts: 84
Out of the two I own (DMoll and Paul) I would say the Paul is the more "Raw" sounding, but in my collection, Diezel isnt where I usually go when Im looking for
"raw". I LOVE both the DMoll and Paul, but what I love is their polish and clarity.

_________________
Guitars: PRS (x7), Gibson (x10), Fender (x7), Ibanez (x3), Charvel (x2), EBMM (x2), Dean, Parker & Martin.
Amps: Friedman (x3), Soldano (x3), Diezel (x2), Mesa (x2), Wizard, Splawn, Marshall, Voodoo, Bogner, KSR & Ceriatone.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group