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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 27, 2017 11:50pm 
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Hack

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I have the first version of the Bogner Ubershall and have always wanted to add a Diezel. I don't really have a Guitar Store where I can go spend a lot of time with the Herbert and VH4. I know tone is hard to put into words, so which one of those two would best complement the Bogner? If you trid to verbalize those two models how would you describe the two?

Thanks for your time.


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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 28, 2017 3:11am 
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I think that the VH4 would be more similar to the Uberschall, so I would probably go with the Hagen or Herbert. Two slightly more dissimilar amps would give a bigger sound together in my opinion.

Besides, either Diezel is so flexible with the controls and channels you would eventually find a way for them to combine well.


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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 28, 2017 10:40am 
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I vote VH4. It has the most different voicing from your Uber. I've got the Herbert, VH4, and both versions of the Uber (Blue and Twin Jet) right now. So that would be my recommendation.

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 28, 2017 2:10pm 
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As both are marshall topologies the desired differences are less in gain structure and more in frequency range.

Hagen was the best choice for the Uberschall Twin Jet I had with fokker a close second. I have not played the older ubers.

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 28, 2017 8:28pm 
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The vh4 will go great with the uberschall. i own the rev blue uber and two vh4's. killer combo


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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 28, 2017 9:47pm 
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I think maybe I tend to hear the VH4 and Uberschall as pretty similar due to their tightness. I've no first hand experience with an Uberschall but that's how I hear it when recorded. This may be relevant/helpful:



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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 28, 2017 10:37pm 
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APO wrote:
I think maybe I tend to hear the VH4 and Uberschall as pretty similar due to their tightness. I've no first hand experience with an Uberschall but that's how I hear it when recorded. This may be relevant/helpful:





Trust me... the Herbert (and to an even greater degree the VH4) is much, much, much tighter in person vs the Uber. Don't always trust recorded clips on youtube. :no:

...or your lying ears. :lol: :LOL:

The VH4 is more modified modern super-tight-tight-tight Marshall 2203... Uber versions original-Blue is more Marshall 2203 meets Mesa Recto. The mid voicing is also really different. Both are low-mid focused but in entirely different frequency ranges.

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 28, 2017 10:44pm 
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Thanks! I learned something new.


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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 28, 2017 10:52pm 
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APO wrote:
Thanks! I learned something new.


:thumbsup:

That is a good comparison video... but a lot is lost in translation. If anyone likes tight high gain tone... Diezel is the answer. Bogners are cool... but they have more of that old-school Marshall feel and bottom end... the power section has a dirtier sound and feel to it.., which is looser and can sound ratty/ragged when pushed hard.

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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 29, 2017 6:38pm 
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so when you say that an amp is "tight" what does that really mean to you? Or loose for that matter. How does it relate to how the audience hears what you are playing opposed to a sound that is 'loose"


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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 29, 2017 8:41pm 
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AtownBcat wrote:
so when you say that an amp is "tight" what does that really mean to you? Or loose for that matter. How does it relate to how the audience hears what you are playing opposed to a sound that is 'loose"


When I start to play fast rhythms (especially power chords) the amp can keep up with my playing... notes don't run together, each note and chords rings out separately... everything doesn't start running together and sounding like a big mess or feel like I'm playing with rubber bands for my strings. Same for solos... when you start playing quick runs up and down the neck, the amp will keep up with you especially on the low E and A strings. An example of a tight amp would be the Diezel VH4... most any Engl Savage 120, SE. An example of "loose or saggy" amp would be an original version 1.0 Bogner Uber or old 2 channel Mesa Dual Rectifier. It comes down to note separation, feel, response, and attack. A fast or tight amp will totally change your playing style and how you attack the strings... pick harder... softer... palm mute position... and a bunch of other stuff. This is why I own and use a bunch of different for different situations. The only issue occurs is when you've only been using one for a long time then switch amps... your ears really start to mess with your head... until everything adjusts. Also tight amps hold together at much louder volumes... whereas a loose amp will start to fall apart at much lower volumes. But then many like the feel of more saggy bottom end at lower volumes. Pick whichever sounds and works best for you. There's no one size fits all.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 30, 2017 12:58am 
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Hack

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What style amp is easier ( more forgiving) to play?


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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 30, 2017 1:49am 
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AtownBcat wrote:
What style amp is easier ( more forgiving) to play?


A loose saggy saturated amp... it will cover up mistakes and feel easier to play. Much more forgiving. But you sacrifice articulation and note separation. If you downtune a lot, you will find life difficult with a spongy amp.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 30, 2017 2:03pm 
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you mentioned an "older" mesa dual rec as an example of a loose amp. Did they make an upgrade to correct the issue?


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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 30, 2017 5:25pm 
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AtownBcat wrote:
you mentioned an "older" mesa dual rec as an example of a loose amp. Did they make an upgrade to correct the issue?


Not sure if Mesa saw it that way... but the newer multi-watt Rectifiers (the one which have a 50W/100W) mode switch on the front now sound much more tighter, articulate and focused compared to the older 2 channel and even the previous 3 channel non-multi-watt models. The multi-watt Rectos are my favorite. They sound and play the best for me. You can put an overdrive pedal in front of the older Rectos to help tighten the sound a bit as well.

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