Rig-Talk

Guitars, Gear, Tone!
It is currently Tue, Jul 17, 2018 12:06pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 04, 2017 4:47am 
Offline
Hack

Joined: Tue, Aug 25, 2015 1:19am
Posts: 11
Location: Vienna Austria
Are you human?: 951
I've owned my dmoll now for quite some time and
I still couldnt dial in a satisfying tone for solos.
Still i love it's articulate and ballsy rhythm tone,
so i'm definately not giving it away any time soon.
I never use channel 3 because it has this glassy, fuzz like
distortion i dont really like, is there a way to mod this amp to
make channel 3 a more singing version of channel 2?
I want the articulation and attack of the diezel in channel 2
and a smooth singing lead sound with harmonic overtones (think mesa triaxis red or even better vh4 ch3). Does anyone have any experience with this?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 04, 2017 11:07am 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB

Joined: Thu, Jun 03, 2010 1:51pm
Posts: 141
Are you human?: 951
What about bringing Presence down? Reduce Gain a bit and Channel Volumen up!? If you need more edge in Ch2 when you decrease Presence dial in more Channel Volumen and Treble. Perhaps you can work with the two Mastervolumes? Perhaps Ch2 more Ch Vol and less Master, Ch3 vice versa. It's always ridiculous how the Channel Volumes and Master Potis interact in all Diezel Amps.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 04, 2017 12:41pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Wanker
User avatar

Joined: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 4:43pm
Posts: 1975
Location: In a room surrounded by Wizards & Mesas
Are you human?: 951
Ever try an od pedal in front? Something in the tubescreamer 808 family should do what you want.

_________________
Excellent transactions with: sjk (S: Soldano SLO 100), glip22 (S: Gibson Historic LP R7), MrPlexi (S: Suhr PT100), Metalhead (S: PRS SC-250 AP), killertone (S: Diezel Herbert), tlingen (S: Engl SE EL34), fuzzyguitars (S: PRS Tremonti Trem & Gibson Historic LP R8), xzyryabx (S: Engl Savage 120), Devilinside (S: Randall Satan), DarkCide: (S: ESP M-II), Mizati20 (S: PV 6505+), bartmcartman (S: Bogner XTC 101B), thaifoo (S: Engl Savage 120), lester (S: Bogner UberKab 4X12), adrenalinejunky (S: Fryette UltraLead), gbsmusic (S: Fender EVH Wolfgang), savant421 (S: Bogner UberKab 4X12 cab), ams2ek (S: Mills Acoustics 4X12 cab), blastcap (S: Gibson Explorer), braciola (S: PV EVH Wolfgang USA), splawner (S: Wampler Plextortion), mhenson42 (S: Celestion V30 speakers), Gsxrbusa (S: Jackson SL2H), El Mariachi (S: Suhr Koko Boost), braintheory (S: Engl SE EL34), ChurchHill (S: Gibson Historic Custom BBR7), and many more.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 05, 2017 4:44am 
Offline
Hack

Joined: Tue, Aug 25, 2015 1:19am
Posts: 11
Location: Vienna Austria
Are you human?: 951
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Ever try an od pedal in front? Something in the tubescreamer 808 family should do what you want.

Thank you for the tip but i do actually use a tubescreamer in front already.
volkair wrote:
What about bringing Presence down? Reduce Gain a bit and Channel Volumen up!? If you need more edge in Ch2 when you decrease Presence dial in more Channel Volumen and Treble. Perhaps you can work with the two Mastervolumes? Perhaps Ch2 more Ch Vol and less Master, Ch3 vice versa. It's always ridiculous how the Channel Volumes and Master Potis interact in all Diezel Amps.

Tweaking the channel volume and gain control does in fact provide a bit more of the singing tone i'm looking for but still i can't really get used to the mid structure of ch3, it is supposed to be better for single notes with it's added low mids but for me it's unusable on stage, i can't even hear myself and in the mix it gets lost aswell. it just sounds compressed and like i was on neck pickup all the time, but still so tight that i have to slam my fingers down like stupid to get nice legatos out. i wish i could just have another channel 2 instead of channel 3. I also dialed out a lot of the low end as it really takes up space in the mix that is typically unheard, therefore decreasing the percentage of signal that is high mids, which are what is heard on stage, i mean the dmoll has obscene levels of low end, but it's more a studio thing i assume. I should mention that i already use reasonable levels of gain as i'm more a fan of substential and cutting tones rather than scooped sounds. at the moment i'm using my ch2 with treble and bass around noon and the mids at 3 o'clock, presence at 1 and deep at 10. gain is at 10 and channel volume at 2. master around 10 (i cant really crank it further, its so fucking loud). For rhythm im having the midcut engaged just to the point that i notice a difference, to compensate for the extra mids i use for leads. but still its not a perfect solution since the gain i use for leads is too much for rhythm and the other way around. Does anyone know if there is a way to make ch3 more like ch2?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat, Dec 16, 2017 7:24am 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee

Joined: Tue, Dec 04, 2012 12:34pm
Posts: 326
Are you human?: 951
Are you sure, you aren't exaggerating the difference between those two channels? I know the lead channel has more low mids, but is the 2nd channel that more cutting?
It's been years I played that amp...

Peter does not voice the amps in a band rehearsal situation. They sound fat and dark. That's why Diezel amps sound good when standing in front of the cone of the speaker.
Try that with a Marshall or a 6505... You'll lose your hearing. Those start to sound ok with the speaker pointing at your knee.
If you put the cab on the floor with a Diezel at the 12 o'clock settings, you won't hear yourself unless you play insanely loud. Your ear has to be where the mic would be.
Wear earplugs always.
I put one cab on the floor for the low end, the other one at the height of my head.
Mesa built wedge cabs for a while. I had one and foolishly sold it. Those were great if you wanted to hear your own playing clearly.

_________________
Diezel VH4 KT77
Peavey 6505
Diezel Lil Fokker
Diezel 412 FL V30
Diezel 212 FL V30
ESP Horizon NT II
ESP Horizon NT II
USACG Strat Kinmans


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 10:41am 
Offline
Hack

Joined: Tue, Aug 25, 2015 1:19am
Posts: 11
Location: Vienna Austria
Are you human?: 951
Quote:
I know the lead channel has more low mids, but is the 2nd channel that more cutting?
Yeah it's definately a whole other story. Quite honestly, i doubt anyone would ever need anywhere near the amount of gain that this amp is producing, plus the mids are more than sufficient if you crank them up a little so i don't really find ch3 that necessary, i would use it though if i was trying to compensate for a thinner sounding guitar, playing with two different instruments. But there's something with channel three that let's it drown in the mix, i could never use it properly live, it is not bad for studio stuff though. For now i'm using ch2 with mids way up (3 o clock) as a lead sound with some extra volume and tame them with a little mid cut for a rhythm tone, but i wish i could have that second set of gain and channel volume controls with ch2s sound.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 19, 2017 2:15am 
Offline
Hack

Joined: Sat, Dec 02, 2017 4:24am
Posts: 15
Are you human?: 951
Well, I'd like to be able to give you more specific advice, but I can't find the D-Moll's pre-amp tube layout online. (It isn't in the Service Manual or anywhere else I've tried looking).
That said, based on the other Diezel models which are listed:

Herbert:
V1 = input stage and channel 2
V2 = channel 3
V3 = all channels
V4 = mixer and send buffer
V5 = return driver serial and parallel
V6 = phase inverter


Hagen:
V1 = input stage, channel 2 and 3
V2 = channel 4
V3 = all channels
V4 = mixer and send buffer
V5 = return driver serial and parallel
V6 = phase inverter


Einstein 50 and Einstein 100:
V1 = input stage, channel one mode 1 and 2
V2 = channel 2
V3 = all channels
V4 = mixer and send buffer
V5 = return driver serial and parallel
V6 = phase inverter

...there does seem to be a distinct pattern and what looks like a solid chance that the pre-amp tube in the V2 position is used specifically for the lead channel. With that in mind, perhaps you could try experimenting with some different pre-amp tubes in that position to see if any offer you a more smooth/singing gain structure.



Alternatively, if you still can't get channel 3 to your liking, you could try a compressor pedal in front of the amp for more singing/sustained leads.
The Pigtronix Philosopher's Tone can achieve sustain that almost rivals a sustainiac system or eBow if you need to take it really far (With a blend control to retain your attack).
Compressor for extra sustain and also a bit of a boost from its level control to drive the front of the amp for additional gain -> into channel 2 and then the second master volume for more output?


.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Dec 20, 2017 9:29pm 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 6:21pm
Posts: 110
Are you human?: 951
I dunno man...I have a D-Moll and Ch3 sounds pretty awesome for leads. Gobs of sustain!

_________________
Fun fact: My name is Dave. Dan Burton was the name on my fake ID in college.
Guitars: PRS (x7), Gibson (x10), Fender (x7), Ibanez (x3), Charvel (x2), EBMM (x2), Dean, Parker & Martin.
Amps: Friedman (x3), Soldano (x3), Diezel (x2), Mesa (x3), Wizard, Splawn, Marshall (x3), Voodoo (x3), Fender (x2), Bogner, KSR & Ceriatone.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group - Terms of Use