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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 30, 2018 1:58pm 
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Hack
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I recently purchased my first Diezel Herbert and what an amazing amp it is. My only regret is I waited this long to get one.

I have two questions. First the amp I bought is used. I'm interested in setting up the midi to work with my TC G-system. My question is, since it's a used amp would I need to erase any midi programs the original owner had stored before I store my own? I didn't see anything in the manual about deleting midi presets. Or do I just create my own presets using the store switch?

My second question has to do with using an amp attenuator. I live in a NYC apartment so I need to play a low volumes. I know this amp can be played quietly by turning up the channel volume and lowering the master volume but IMO the amp sounds so much better when the master is turned up a bit too. My solution was to purchase either a Rivera Rock Crusher Attenuator which can handle a max of 120 watts at 8 ohms or the Fryette PS-2 which can handle 150 watts at 8 ohms. I know this amp is 180 watts. I was wondering if I would be able to use either of these with this amp? I'm only guessing but as long as I don't turn the master volume to high I will it be ok? I appreciate any and all input.


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PostPosted: Tue, May 01, 2018 4:26pm 
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1. regardless Midi, create your own presets, there are isn't any erase button, just select midi program you want on midi controller(in your case its G system), select what you want to have on herbert with that particular program (channel, Midcut, fxloop, master) and click store twice, then go to next program and do same thing for another program. I'm not sure how g system works, but for my setup, Voodoolab CGP and Fractal Audio for FX, a create own midi Channel for each device, ch1 for herbert, ch 2 for fractal, this way I can have same program on fractal but with different channels on herbert, or opposite same program on diezel with different programs on fractal.
2.attenuators make amp sound bad – IMHO, I have herbert and 412 diezel cab in apartment without any problems, sure, it sounds better in gig situation, but it's more about speakers working harder, not power tubes. actually once I compared herbert set very quite and recorded into load box, vs herbert with master set to 12 in same recording setup, there is difference, but not huge, cranked amp had more presence and gain.


what I do if I want to practice at night, I bought Suhr reactive load, and IR of diezel Cab(by ownhammer). so I just plug reactive load instead of cab and run it to my DAW, where I Have my IR,


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PostPosted: Wed, May 02, 2018 10:41am 
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Just as a heads up: I have an EWS Subtle Volume attenuator that works great with my VH4. I'm able to crank the MV to 12 , CV to 11, and still play at a low volume in my apartment.

However, it does not seem to work well with my Herbert MK2 for some reason. I do know that the Two Notes Torpedo reload works well with the Herbert too, and has more features too. Of course, it's a more pricier option.

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PostPosted: Wed, May 02, 2018 2:23pm 
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Thanks to both of you for your comments. I'm looking at getting the Fryette Power Station PS-2. The Power Station is a variable reactive load and tube power amplifier. It's designed to be transparent, user friendly, reliable and ultra-responsive to a wide array of guitar amplifier and speaker types. The PS-2 also has some eq controls so you can tweak your sound even more.

Although I understand that most people can get a great tone out of their Herbert without one of these, I just haven't been satisfied with the tone I'm able to get at the volumes I'm playing at. My master volume jumps at a point and that when it starts to sound good. Every amp has a sweet spot and at 180 watts I know I'm nowhere near that. The PS-2 only handles 150 watts but I spoke to Fryette and they said I should be fine as long as I don't turn the Master volume up to 10.

The Midi thing is something I really know nothing about. I'm going to have to read the section on Midi in Laird Williams White paper for the G-system. Program messages, bank select messages, continuous controller messages, omni mode, single channel mode and automatic channel mode. I have no idea what any of this means. I own a Mesa Boogie Roadster that I control with a Mini amp gizmo. It's so simple. I wish I could just do the same with the Herbert.


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PostPosted: Thu, May 03, 2018 12:37pm 
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My Suhr reactive load rated to handle 100W but I guess the components inside were designed to handle 200W. It's doing fine if I crank Herbert to 12 on master, which is way louder than drummer at rehearsals.

If Fryeette Power station Is rated at 150W I suppose its has 300W resistors.

General rule that you want your speakers(or Load box) to be able handle twice power of your amp, meaning that with 100W amp, you want your cab to be at least 200W(typical 412 with V30 is 240W). But even if you have 2x12 cab (120W) you will be fine as long as you not cranking your amp all the way up. same thing with load boxes.


Midi is very simple, way simpler that connecting all those footswithces on Road King,


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PostPosted: Fri, May 04, 2018 1:05am 
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Having tried various Attenuators on VH4 I have to admit that I removed them quite quickly again.
For me there was no sense in having an attenuator at this amp. It just sounded better with just lowering volumes.

You may try the EWS Subtle Volume in the serial loop. This basically worked best in my opinion (at least on VH4)

Regarding MIDI, it is quite easy. Imagine you would have connected all your effects, amp etc via midi to a midi food controller:

Program Changes basically just sends a change message out to all devices, e.g. "4" changes all connected devices to the Program Bank "4"

In case you have a midi Board that can send multiple MIDI messages on different Channels, you may configure a more advanced midi control setup e.g. your amp listening on Channel 1, effect device on Channel 2. in this case you would be able to send with one Program Change a message on channel 1 to switch amp to Channel "y", Effect Device on Channel 2 to change to Program "x" (or not to react at all)

Midi CC messages are more for Pedal movement, e.g. Volume Control etc.

It all depends on what you want to control and on your general setup.

How will your setup look overall?


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PostPosted: Fri, May 04, 2018 11:24am 
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The Fryette PS2 will work with the Herbert... just don't crank the Herbie MV full open. That said... I don't like the sound of the Fryette. I much much prefer the tone of Two Notes Reload for attenuation. Also consider something like the Two Notes Studio which will allow you crank the amp as loud as you like and jam or record in complete silence.

Also as mentioned above the Herbert sounds great with the MV being used judiciously instead of adding in an attenuator. But if you feel the need, the TN Reload is the best of the current options available... including the UA OX which I didn't care for either.

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PostPosted: Fri, May 04, 2018 2:50pm 
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belensky wrote:
My Suhr reactive load rated to handle 100W but I guess the components inside were designed to handle 200W. It's doing fine if I crank Herbert to 12 on master, which is way louder than drummer at rehearsals.

If Fryeette Power station Is rated at 150W I suppose its has 300W resistors.

General rule that you want your speakers(or Load box) to be able handle twice power of your amp, meaning that with 100W amp, you want your cab to be at least 200W(typical 412 with V30 is 240W). But even if you have 2x12 cab (120W) you will be fine as long as you not cranking your amp all the way up. same thing with load boxes.


Midi is very simple, way simpler that connecting all those footswithces on Road King,



Thanks for the insight. I'm actually using a Mesa 12x2 with V30's. It should be fine since I barely turn it up but good to know if I end up playing out with the Herbert and the cab.

The mini amp gizmo that I'm using with my boogie is actually very easy to use. It connects to my G-system via midi cable and to the Boogie via a proprietary cable made for the amp. There are 8 buttons on the MAG, each controlling a different function of the amp. 1-4 for the channels and 5-8 for Solo, FX loop, ect. When I'm set to a preset on the G-system you just push the buttons you want for that preset and hit the store button, then every time you come back to that preset it calls up those changes. I just repeat the process for every preset and that's it.

As for the midi, I'll just have to do some reading about using midi with the G-system. Hopefully it shouldn't be that hard. All I want to do is to have the channels, Mid Cut, ect. change when I change to a different preset. I don't need to control multiple devices or anything like that.


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PostPosted: Fri, May 04, 2018 3:08pm 
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zeen wrote:
Having tried various Attenuators on VH4 I have to admit that I removed them quite quickly again.
For me there was no sense in having an attenuator at this amp. It just sounded better with just lowering volumes.

You may try the EWS Subtle Volume in the serial loop. This basically worked best in my opinion (at least on VH4)

Regarding MIDI, it is quite easy. Imagine you would have connected all your effects, amp etc via midi to a midi food controller:

Program Changes basically just sends a change message out to all devices, e.g. "4" changes all connected devices to the Program Bank "4"

In case you have a midi Board that can send multiple MIDI messages on different Channels, you may configure a more advanced midi control setup e.g. your amp listening on Channel 1, effect device on Channel 2. in this case you would be able to send with one Program Change a message on channel 1 to switch amp to Channel "y", Effect Device on Channel 2 to change to Program "x" (or not to react at all)

Midi CC messages are more for Pedal movement, e.g. Volume Control etc.

It all depends on what you want to control and on your general setup.

How will your setup look overall?


I'm using the TC electronics G-system in the 4 cable method, utilizing the effects loop of the amp. I'll just have to do some reading about using midi with the G-system. Hopefully it shouldn't be that hard. All I want to do is to have the channels (1-3), Mid Cut, ect. change when I change to a different preset on the G-system. I don't need to control multiple devices or anything like that. I'm guessing the program changes would be what I want. I just need to create a bunch of presets on the herbert and store them. Then I would just go preset by preset on the G-system and just select what preset I want on the Herbert. Nothing complex. I just have to read the G-system manual about how to do that.


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PostPosted: Fri, May 04, 2018 3:14pm 
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Wizard of Ozz wrote:
The Fryette PS2 will work with the Herbert... just don't crank the Herbie MV full open. That said... I don't like the sound of the Fryette. I much much prefer the tone of Two Notes Reload for attenuation. Also consider something like the Two Notes Studio which will allow you crank the amp as loud as you like and jam or record in complete silence.

Also as mentioned above the Herbert sounds great with the MV being used judiciously instead of adding in an attenuator. But if you feel the need, the TN Reload is the best of the current options available... including the UA OX which I didn't care for either.



That's kind of interesting. From all the videos I watched and from all I read online the Fryette PS-2 and the UA OX seemed to be the best. I'll definitely check out the Two Notes Reload as well. The Fryette I was gonna get has a 45 day return policy so if I don't like it I can just return it.


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