Rig-Talk

Which microphones do you use to get your Diezel sound to the public? Has anybody experience with the Sennheiser E906 or the AKG C214? Thanks

Stefan

Im using E906. Cannot really comment is it the best option, but at least very user friendly.

I would avoid condensers, specially for live

Heil PR30, Sm7, Sm57, is what I would reccomend.

SM57

V.

Sm57 or the e906. I have lots of experience with both and the e906 can get killer sounds. I agree no condensers too much potential for issues.

I've been doing stuff with multiple 57's and the e906.

I recommend the e906 very much over the 57's.

it just plain sounds better, and the 57's sound scooped.

Put the Master up -> no mic needed

for live use i always use both the sm57 and e906 in the mix with my vh4 with g12k100.
much better than just one mic.

chris

well put. But if a mic is needed, SM57, Senn 421 or Audix I5 work great. Ive also used AT4050 with much luck

sm 57 doesn't work that well with the herb. even the sm 58 does a better job with the herb.
the e906 directly facing the loudspeaker works really nice!
audio technica also has nice stuff (the ae 2500 is great, but 600euros...)

Thank you guys for your great help. What issues do you expect with condensers? Feedback or do you think they are not robust enough on stage (volume, mechanical robustness)? I heard that they sound more balanced than e. g. a sm57.

i have used condensors a bunch. Never had any issues with them. Whether it be an AT or even an RE20...sounded great!

And IMHO the Herbie sounds just ducky with a 57. 900000 soundmen would agree. LOL. I love the Sennheiser E stuff but to me they have a funky mid hump that you just cant dial out.

The Heil PR30 seemed to work well with my VH4. SM57 also

My experience with condensers live is limited. I use them in the studio quite a bit though and here's my concerns. Condensers generally pick up ALOT of ambient noise. Stage stomping rings through easily. If you're too close to the drums they'll bleed a bit. You also have to make sure the mixer supports phantom and that the soundman (some aren't so bright) turns on the phantom power. They're relatively fragile in transit, or on stage (if you drop it or kick it). A dynamic will usually still work even if you throw it down on concrete and run it over with a mack truck. Most condensers I've tried sound a little "sterile" to me, but thats a whole other topic with much debate. They're also usually more sensitive to SPL than a dynamic (easier to damage). Anyways, I don't own a herbert, and I'm sure many guitarists have good luck with them.. Again just my 2 cents.

Thanks guys for all your help. Today I bought the Sennheiser E906. I will soon try it out and tell you how it sounds.

Stefan

I made the mistake of using a condenser live once, and It picked up the amp great, but also the drums, the bass, even though they were a bit away. So you will run into picking up not only your amp, but a good deal of whats around it as well. Just the nature of condensers.

A good dynamic will do a much better job at isolation live for sure.

dark Amp-settings/Sound + SM57 = perfect for me.

Thank you gentlemen for all your input. We experimented with my new E906 the other day and I liked how it sounds very much from the beginning.

Senn 421 is the best mic out there IMHO for guitar. Mixed with a sm57 you have a perfect match.

How come you all don't use the Diezel compensated out?
I have been using it rather then my Sennheisers, and the sound is just as it is coming right off the speakers. I have never had any problems using the comp out on any of my Diezels.

Also, any sound person who has done our sound previously, has always asked me to use the comp out when they do our sound again.
Just curious.
Stephen

My answer to this is very simpple. I don't have compensated output in my VH4.

For others, I don't know why they don't use it, but at least I would try it and maybe even try mixing the compensated out and miked sound. Not for studio recording, but in live-situations.

I just tested some mics with my Einstein and a Marshall 4x12.

SM 57 - No
E906 - No
TLM 170 - No
MD421 - well ... hm ...
Rhode NT5 - YES! No muddy sound, very transparent and direct.

Chris

We tried the compensated out on the herbert for live use in combination with the e906, but it didn´t work very well. too dark and muddy sounding.
we went back to e906 and sm57 in combination.

greets
chris

has anyone tried the Shure Beta 58 with the Herb w/ v30?

one of the best mics i've heard on a guitar signal is the Beyer M-88. It is like taking a blanket off of an SM57... bigger lows and transparent highs. mix it with a 57 geared towards the mids for a great collaboration.

What you have to do is buy some mics and try them out for yourself. Don't listen to people who want to tell you which dynamic mic is better or worse. It's complete bullshit. An sm57 could sound amazing on one cab, and shit on another, or one amp vs. another, or guitar, or player, or room, engineer, sound board, compressor, eq, blah blah blah. Even a few degrees tilt to one side, and a half an inch forward or away could make or break the sound of a microphone for a specific application. It's all how you use the mic, what you set it up with, how you play, and the rest of your signal chain.

All of those mics (pr30, e906, sm57, sm7b...etc) mentioned in the post could potentially sound amazing with a VH4, or tons of other amps. I own all of those mics and I can tell you from experience. I've owned tons of different amps, guitars, cabs, I own an analog vintage Trident console, and a full digital Pro Tools rig. How a dynamic mic sounds on an amp has so many factors in play. Seriously, just buy a mic and try it at every angle, every distance...etc. Trial and error. If you listen to everybody on a forum about this, you're head is going to be spinning with contradicting opinions, tastes and ears, and especially false claims and completely nonsensical statements, LIKE THE FOLLOWING.

AND LET ME PREFACE THIS WITH SAYING THAT I'M NOT TRYING TO PICK ON THIS GUY OR START AN ARGUMENT



This is nonsense for one main reason. The 57 and 58 are essentially identical mics, save for a SLIGHT presence difference that is created by different grills. The 57 has the smaller grill, which allows you to put it closer to a sound source and get more bass response. The 58 has the "ball" and windscreen, creating a different presence peak at higher frequencies. If you don't believe me, go read it straight from the Shure website, or ask one of their engineers on another thread or buy calling the HQ.

The only reason these two mics should sound SIGNIFICANTLY different is because of mic placement. There really is no reason that a 58 should sound different on a cab. You can essentially get all the tones out of a 57 that you can with the 58, plus you can then put it closer and get more bass response, where you can't with the 58, unless you unscrew the top of the ball, and you could probably get almost identical sounds.

Also, the statement about the e906 sounding awesome directly facing the speaker...ok, so is it also centered in the speaker, or to the left or right, is it right up on the grill, or back a half an inch, or an inch? All of these things could cause the mic to go from sounding like radio gold, to complete crap, and it causes a lot of arguments and confusion among people who forget that they might have tried the mics in different applications, distances, rooms, techniques, with different guitars or cabs and speakers....etc the list goes on.

Sorry for rambling, but I just can't stress it enough. Most dynamic mics are pretty cheap; even the good ones, so try it for yourself. You might completely love what the other guy completely hates.

And what about Royer mics? R121 or R122? I think Matt Bellamy uses R122 for live.