Bogner Ecstasy 20th Anniversary : 6L6 vs EL34

S

Stratpuppy

New member
Hi - I would like to revive this discussion. Clearly it can go one and there is no right answer - it comes down to personal taste.

I'm about to pull the trigger on a 20th anniversary xtc
and I'm finding it hard to decide between the 6L6 and EL34 version. I am
into 80s Rock, instrumental rock and Blues : Malmsteen, Satriani, def
lepard, white snake, Hendrix, Gary Moore, Andy Timmons, Metallica, Guns and
roses and Clapton. I generally prefer a tight, thumping low end and a
razor sharp / chainsaw musical distortion which doesn't feel loose. I'm am
not , however, into modern uber gain with drop tuning etc.. - it has to be
aggressive yet musical at the same time. Any insight or words of wisdom
would be highly appreciated. I'm probably leaning more towards the 6L6 -
especially as that is the tube the circuit board was built around to start
off with - I have read t the vintage transistors ad SOZO caps built in more
mids and that he 6l6s tend to provide a more balanced sound. I also seem
to prefer all the clips on YouTube with 6l6s - yet most people tend to seem
to prefer the EL34s - I just don't want to make an expensive mistake. I am
still open to both options and want to have an open mind. Thanks for
taking the time to get back to me.
 
Here are a bunch of clips off YouTube - split by type of tube :

EL34

Part 1 el34 : https://youtu.be/AKghZ6XuDkQ
Part 2 el34 : https://youtu.be/SInDMm5iJQE
https://youtu.be/Ba4uqZzxK58
https://youtu.be/g2p9YQSfSpA
https://youtu.be/P8LwolL72Mc
https://youtu.be/FoSSHQytw50
https://youtu.be/g2p9YQSfSpA
https://youtu.be/6ZZA0ULbEsQ
https://youtu.be/oBMXU4W6u68
https://youtu.be/Ba4uqZzxK58
https://youtu.be/ikfTqqbZcT8
https://youtu.be/FoSSHQytw50
https://youtu.be/n0UC_9R2gPc

6L6

https://youtu.be/-sppoZPxVsw
https://youtu.be/x4C3cLXpg_o
https://youtu.be/jkmrse_NIuk
https://youtu.be/AD7gZd9x8LA
https://youtu.be/AoG9mvOpLIU
https://youtu.be/wjItqIoaT_w
https://youtu.be/cxPJ042xaQs
https://youtu.be/6vQ8B6DmlOA
https://youtu.be/Tce4PTMIVtc
https://youtu.be/d2G3X6WISzg
https://youtu.be/tGIAUJw0YN0
https://youtu.be/lMC_-lEK6Ew
 
EL34! Although the 6L6 is great too, wider but not as classic sounding, a bit more modern. I owned both at one point, Kept the EL34 but that's just me
 
RG955TT":bfqflx1o said:
EL34! Although the 6L6 is great too, wider but not as classic sounding, a bit more modern. I owned both at one point, Kept the EL34 but that's just me
Click to expand...


I think it's worth mentioning that I just sold a Friedman BE 100 - I can't explain it - I just felt that something was lacking - don't get me wrong , great low end but I felt the highs were not piercing enough
 
gtr31":6nevffrh said:
se7en":6nevffrh said:
You'd probably find Bogners too dark then.
Click to expand...


Agreed , To OP if you want more "CUT" to the highs try something like a Soldano or Splawn
Click to expand...

Or if you want to try Bogner try out the Helios, it can be the brightest most cutting amp they have ever made!
 
sjk":tb2l25m8 said:
gtr31":tb2l25m8 said:
se7en":tb2l25m8 said:
You'd probably find Bogners too dark then.
Click to expand...


Agreed , To OP if you want more "CUT" to the highs try something like a Soldano or Splawn
Click to expand...

Or if you want to try Bogner try out the Helios, it can be the brightest most cutting amp they have ever made!
Click to expand...


I think I may have used the wrong term then ... Translating sound to words doesn't come easy to me unfortunately .. I have played a 101b and the notes just ring out much longer than they did on the Friedman ... I had two or three other people play the Friedman and they were also very surprised with its tonal qualities - which is a shame - something may have been wrong with it .. It was somewhat uninspiring ....

These two clipsmformexample, definitely cover what I hear in my head for lead and rhythm :

Lead : https://youtu.be/AoG9mvOpLIU
Rhythm : https://youtu.be/4taDRy0NgWo. (From 1:25 onwards)

Unfortunately one is the 101b and the other is the 6L6 20th Anniversary XTC ... Maybe it's just me but i feel as though the EL34s sound very different in the 20th vs the 101b. . Slightly more. Intake, more grainy... Which I gues is why I like the EL34s in the 101b better - it sounds slightly more modern to my ears...

Really appreciate all your comments - some of you have pm'd me and I am definitely leaning more towards the 6L6

Maybe a combination of both the 6L6 and the 101b would cover all the bases :)

Although if I did that, I am not sure what I'd be eating for the next year
 
Stratpuppy":ejx0nox6 said:
sjk":ejx0nox6 said:
gtr31":ejx0nox6 said:
se7en":ejx0nox6 said:
You'd probably find Bogners too dark then.
Click to expand...


Agreed , To OP if you want more "CUT" to the highs try something like a Soldano or Splawn
Click to expand...

Or if you want to try Bogner try out the Helios, it can be the brightest most cutting amp they have ever made!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


SPELL CHECK :


I think I may have used the wrong term then ... Translating sound to words doesn't come easy to me unfortunately .. I have played a 101b and the notes just ring out much longer than they did on the Friedman ... I had two or three other people play the Friedman and they were also very surprised with its tonal qualities - which is a shame - something may have been wrong with it .. It was somewhat uninspiring ....

These two clips for example, definitely cover what I hear in my head for lead and rhythm :

Lead : https://youtu.be/AoG9mvOpLIU
Rhythm : https://youtu.be/4taDRy0NgWo. (From 1:25 onwards)

Unfortunately one is the 101b and the other is the 6L6 20th Anniversary XTC ... Maybe it's just me but i feel as though the EL34s sound very different in the 20th vs the 101b. . Slightly more vintage and more grainy on the 20th ... Which I guess is why I like the EL34s in the 101b better - it sounds slightly more modern to my ears...

Really appreciate all your comments - some of you have pm'd me and I am definitely leaning more towards the 6L6 on the 20th

Maybe a combination of both the 6L6 and the 101b would cover all the bases :)

Although if I did that, I am not sure what I'd be eating for the next year
 
Thought I would share two PMs I received - also from people who have had exposure to both the EL34s and 6L6s (hope they don't mind me sharing - but an unbiased view is almost always the best in my opinion)

First PM :

"Hi - I'm a staunch EL34 guy through and through and I always have been. If I'm honest I believe the 20th XTC with 6L6s is the better amp. The 20th XTC was designed with 6L6s and NOT EL34s. I find the 6L6s to be tighter, more sustain and far punchier/dynamic. Nothing at all wrong with the EL34 version BUT again the 6L6s in this amp makes it the better of the two....

.....I played 3 separate 20ths all with EL34s and the 6L6s were better in each instance. No, I haven't tried different brands of EL34s in the amp but I firmly believe it won't overtake the 6L6. The amp is simply made with 6L6s in mind from the onset. What I can say is the amp with 6L6s has you thinking it has amazing EL34s in it BUT it's the 6L6s! No, it has NO relation whatsoever to a Mesa or anything else with 6L6s in it. It's unique as you'll find out."

Second PM :

"I preferred the 6L6 version and I love 34's. I don't think you'd know 34's weren't in the amp if nobody told you. The 34 version is a tad boxy in the midrange and more compressed. The 6L6 clean channel is amazing and the gain channels are full and more open...It still retains those chewy low mids, but is more dynamic."


Thank you both for your comments - pretty much confirming my original thoughts
 
I agree with all this.

Stratpuppy":14zdgmea said:
Thought I would share two PMs I received - also from people who have had exposure to both the EL34s and 6L6s (hope they don't mind me sharing - but an unbiased view is almost always the best in my opinion)

First PM :

"Hi - I'm a staunch EL34 guy through and through and I always have been. If I'm honest I believe the 20th XTC with 6L6s is the better amp. The 20th XTC was designed with 6L6s and NOT EL34s. I find the 6L6s to be tighter, more sustain and far punchier/dynamic. Nothing at all wrong with the EL34 version BUT again the 6L6s in this amp makes it the better of the two....

.....I played 3 separate 20ths all with EL34s and the 6L6s were better in each instance. No, I haven't tried different brands of EL34s in the amp but I firmly believe it won't overtake the 6L6. The amp is simply made with 6L6s in mind from the onset. What I can say is the amp with 6L6s has you thinking it has amazing EL34s in it BUT it's the 6L6s! No, it has NO relation whatsoever to a Mesa or anything else with 6L6s in it. It's unique as you'll find out."

Second PM :

"I preferred the 6L6 version and I love 34's. I don't think you'd know 34's weren't in the amp if nobody told you. The 34 version is a tad boxy in the midrange and more compressed. The 6L6 clean channel is amazing and the gain channels are full and more open...It still retains those chewy low mids, but is more dynamic."


Thank you both for your comments - pretty much confirming my original thoughts
Click to expand...
 
Also something I found in another forum :

Here's what Jorg @ Bogner said on why they went with 6L6's after building the 101b around EL34's:

"The amp was designed with the 6L6 compliments the circuit better, the sozo and dijon caps have more girth and midrange, EL34 will pronounce that more.
Some people just need to have EL34's no matter what, I had both, people converting liking it better and others converting back, guess personal taste, we prefer the 6L6's."
 
Rdodson":1cqy5e2y said:
I agree with all this.

Stratpuppy":1cqy5e2y said:
Thought I would share two PMs I received - also from people who have had exposure to both the EL34s and 6L6s (hope they don't mind me sharing - but an unbiased view is almost always the best in my opinion)

First PM :

"Hi - I'm a staunch EL34 guy through and through and I always have been. If I'm honest I believe the 20th XTC with 6L6s is the better amp. The 20th XTC was designed with 6L6s and NOT EL34s. I find the 6L6s to be tighter, more sustain and far punchier/dynamic. Nothing at all wrong with the EL34 version BUT again the 6L6s in this amp makes it the better of the two....

.....I played 3 separate 20ths all with EL34s and the 6L6s were better in each instance. No, I haven't tried different brands of EL34s in the amp but I firmly believe it won't overtake the 6L6. The amp is simply made with 6L6s in mind from the onset. What I can say is the amp with 6L6s has you thinking it has amazing EL34s in it BUT it's the 6L6s! No, it has NO relation whatsoever to a Mesa or anything else with 6L6s in it. It's unique as you'll find out."

Second PM :

"I preferred the 6L6 version and I love 34's. I don't think you'd know 34's weren't in the amp if nobody told you. The 34 version is a tad boxy in the midrange and more compressed. The 6L6 clean channel is amazing and the gain channels are full and more open...It still retains those chewy low mids, but is more dynamic."


Thank you both for your comments - pretty much confirming my original thoughts
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I see you have owned / own the 101b as well as the 20th 6L6 and 20th EL34 - which was your favourite? And why? Also how did the blue and red channels of the 101b compare to the 6L6 20th?

Thanks
 
Traditionally, EL-34s are my preferred tube for crunch and high gain. I will also mention that I have only heard a 101b in comparison to my 6L6 20th Anniv. XTC. All of that being said, I couldn't be happier with the 6L6 version. I don't feel as I am missing any "EL-34 tones" and I picked up a much better clean channel with the 6L6 version.
 
bonedarrell":33mfs9r1 said:
Traditionally, EL-34s are my preferred tube for crunch and high gain. I will also mention that I have only heard a 101b in comparison to my 6L6 20th Anniv. XTC. All of that being said, I couldn't be happier with the 6L6 version. I don't feel as I am missing any "EL-34 tones" and I picked up a much better clean channel with the 6L6 version.
Click to expand...



Thanks - did you try the 20th EL34 too?
 
Just wanted to thank everyone for their input ... A store close by will have a 101b and a 6L6 20th in Jan - I'll try both side by side and make a choice
 
Although the 20th XTC was built around the 6L6, Bogner sells more of the EL34 model. That came straight from Bogner when I called them to inquire about biasing the amp.
The EL34 20th does not sound like a 101b. The 20th is more open or Marshally sounding. But, don't take that the wrong way. It's still very much Bogner, and not a Marshall.
I recently picked up a 20th with EL34s. Just put new tubes in it a biased it around 30ma.
It sounds really great when you can get the master volume up around 10 oclock. It can sound good at lower volumes too if you crank the presence and treble, but it's meant to be played loud.
Killer amp.

Here's a clip I made on the red channel:
https://soundcloud.com/bmandrell/xtc-red-gl-trippy
 
^ perhaps, but just because they sell more EL34 versions doesn't mean it's the better sounding of the two. I'm a betting man, and I would be comfortable wagering that > 50% of the EL34 models sold were ordered by people that had never heard the EL34 model in person but just "had to have" EL34s in their amp.
 
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