RIGS! A journey thru sounds (audio and video content)

italoop

Active member
This is a different thing from the usual YouTube projects... not a demo nor a gear comparison... nahh
This is about getting different fx processors to work together with a goal... be it a classic studio sound or an original textural idea... on to the most creative bounds of sounds.
It's the real thing, folks!

This is a "work in progress" thread...
adding new examples in time, hoping a creative discussion springs out of them. A RIG doesn't have to ba a guitar system only and doesn't have to process guitars only.
Let's go beyond the 6 strings as there are other magnificent instruments.

A request...
have some deep love for yourself. Pretty Please.
Listen thru a decent set of speakers or nice headphones. Streaming to those computer speakers isn't legal!

And so it goes....



A timeless texture! 1980s classic rock guitars... with chorus and delays.
No... this won't be another TSC example... NOPE. This is more about the "other" rock thing rather than the pop-ish stuff. Those chorus sounds... from the TC1210, Pro-Chorus, STD-1, PCM70, H3000 made history.
This one features the Korg DL8000R, set to work for this classic sound created by those guys who tweaked a lot in the day. And the PCM81 adds its beautiful warm delays... each machine does a single thing here... shining at its best.

RIGS L.A. 1980s Rock Guitars


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This one is as classic as Homer Iliad and Odyssey!
Back in the '80s and '90s most recording engineers tracked guitars with THIS dual delays thickening technique. No modulation... just BALLS OUT!
The Korg DL8000R is a killer at widening works. It splits the stereo field like a sharp knife.
Add the PCM81 to the picture... still providing the juicy Lexicon delays... no diffusion and no modulation here. It's a simple not_over_processed example, good to start with.

RIGS Classic Rock Thickening


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More R'n'R ! ! !
More thickening techniques. This can only be done with rack gear. Pedals would be a serious headache....
And it's more of a studio thing but you can do it with a SwitchBlade or with any analog mixer... it takes quite some AUX Sends and/or channels Direct Outs though.
It involves MONO... just to make it hugely stereo, spread or moderately "sided".

The signal is split in two bands here by the MPX-1. PCM can also do that but I prefer to use the MPX as the PCM has higher luxury effects on board to be wasted for just that.

The lower band is processed thru the PCM80, adding a couple of modulated delays panned mid sides, not full L/R... or they would clash with the other band.
The higher band goes into the PCM81 and is thickened by the same classic dual delays technique (L.A. studios) as in the first clips above. Panning is full L/R.
Listen to how the pick stands thick and spread to the sides.
You can create unbelievable scenarios with this technique... even with 3 bands!
HUGE!!!
Tons of guitars processed in this way ,in those records you have at home.

RIGS Frequency Split Gtr Wall

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The same frequency split trick as before... on a clean guitar.
Notice how the stereo spread breathes wide and narrow... and the pick is huge!
A mixer and 3 processors...
Might be nice to do it on a single Orville or H8000 and use the 4 outputs for the mixing.

RIGS FreqSplit Clean Guitar

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You love sounds! You're addicted to them! You like creating them! You want them to be unique, different, one of a kind! You want the right tools!
You want to do sound design...

Here's is a pretty tough and mighty rig, not too big. Easy to manage... running up to 4 algortihms... large ones... and in multi-channels audio!
The Mighty Eventide Orville and the King H8000... a lifestyle in sounds.
This one is a quad audio clip, mixed down to stereo... unfortunately. You should listen to it on 4 speakers to realize what it really is.
The Orville plays "Ambient Guitar 1"... the mildly pushed distortion preamp pushes a bunch of ring modulated delay taps thru a Plex module... getting the rhythm guitar part in a steady rhythmic pulse and creating nice panning movement, thanks to the frequency shifters working in asymmetrical way.
The second Orville DSP is taking a break...
The H8000 covers the "Europa" pad, tweaked from the original version... now running on shorter delays forward shifters, mid boost and high cut. Shorter reverb adds the space to it.
The other H8000 DSP brings pure fuzz brutality to the party... screaming harmonics and low frequency nastyness... the "Square Tubes" crazily pushed (+37 dB gain!), eq_ed and compressed... thru 2 delay taps+feedback tap, all set to thicken the bastard... all thru a final reverb. This thing screams like an animal on fire. Bad one...
No parallel mixer stuff for the dry sound... nope... no "nice and beautiful" rack rules here. Gtr straigth into the boxes and get all their juices to the computer.

So it goes...

RIGS Cyber Music

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WOW !!! No wonder records sound like shit now ! Who does this stuff anymore ? With this classic gear ? NOBODY !
 
paulyc":3tpuxkki said:
WOW !!! No wonder records sound like shit now ! Who does this stuff anymore ? With this classic gear ? NOBODY !

Thank you!
I should probably link my videos with the Eventide H3000 and Lexicon300.
Those are killers!
 
paulyc":6gtoypce said:
How would you even do this stuff in a DAW ? Plugins ???
Would it sound the same ?

Impossible.
Routing between plugs would be really a headache... and... there are no plugins doing a lot of these effects at all.
Sound? Nope...
 
Aloha Italo,

Long time no see. Sounds great, and is a PERFECT example of why, when everyone else was down-sizing their gear, I kept the flame burning brightly, keeping the Rack rigs gigging. There is NO substitute.

:thumbsup:
 
Hey Zach

good to hear from you! Keep the flame alive!
The more I hear these "new" toys... tha sadder is the ear. We desperately need doctors to cure our kids ears.
These RIGs are the living example one doesn't need a refrigerator style rack to make great sounding recordings.
It's the quality of this stuff and the "know how" of the user that make THE difference.

Let me ask a "rethoric" question...
how many delay pedals are out there? Hundreds?
No one of them has a true 6 voice delays algorithm like in the PCM70/80/81.
That's the basic foundation of tons of great effects.
What a joke!
 
italoop":3791ve7x said:
paulyc":3791ve7x said:
How would you even do this stuff in a DAW ? Plugins ???
Would it sound the same ?

Impossible.
Routing between plugs would be really a headache... and... there are no plugins doing a lot of these effects at all.
Sound? Nope...
So unless you're in a real studio with a real console and these various boxes there is no way to do any of this ??? I have the boxes, but no way to use them with a DAW, only on live guitar.
 
paulyc":20r1qhf5 said:
italoop":20r1qhf5 said:
paulyc":20r1qhf5 said:
How would you even do this stuff in a DAW ? Plugins ???
Would it sound the same ?

Impossible.
Routing between plugs would be really a headache... and... there are no plugins doing a lot of these effects at all.
Sound? Nope...
So unless you're in a real studio with a real console and these various boxes there is no way to do any of this ??? I have the boxes, but no way to use them with a DAW, only on live guitar.


The key is a mixer...
most guitar rack mixers are very limited in routings (few Auxes, no channels direct outs, etc...).
Some of these examples can be made in a rack with a typical gtr line mixer... others require a more sophisticated mixer.
I have been using a Mackie desktop mixer with my rack... for live use too.
Last time I used a guitar rack line mixer... it was 1995. Never looked back.
 
No, I'm asking about recording guitars in a DAW, you'd neec a big mixer that's compatible with whatever DAW you're running...I don't even know of one that a mere mortal could afford. A basic Pro Tools setup from GC isn't compatible with a big recording console, unless it's digital, and even then, what's compatible ??? Anyone know ?
 
paulyc":2qwzy02p said:
How would you even do this stuff in a DAW ? Plugins ???
Would it sound the same ?
I get similar recorded tones in Logic with just plugins. The plugins that come with Logic would do just fine, but if you really want to get close, I'd say get the Eventide H3000 plugin as well.

Double-tracked guitar bussed to auxs with multiple stereo delays set differently, stereo micropitchshift and reverb and mixed properly will sound like these examples. Pretty much indestinguishable in a full mix...

Steve
 
italoop":wv10uqnp said:
paulyc":wv10uqnp said:
How would you even do this stuff in a DAW ? Plugins ???
Would it sound the same ?

Impossible.
Routing between plugs would be really a headache... and... there are no plugins doing a lot of these effects at all.
Sound? Nope...
I don't agree with this. You can route a track to tons of auxs with plugins on them. Not sure I get why routing would be a headache? There are so many plugins available these days that I'm having trouble understanding what effects are unavailable in plugin form these days?

Steve
 
paulyc":3to5ayl8 said:
No, I'm asking about recording guitars in a DAW, you'd neec a big mixer that's compatible with whatever DAW you're running...I don't even know of one that a mere mortal could afford. A basic Pro Tools setup from GC isn't compatible with a big recording console, unless it's digital, and even then, what's compatible ??? Anyone know ?

You can record on an analog mixer to an audio interface for the DAW. Easy.
 
sah5150":jsv861o2 said:
paulyc":jsv861o2 said:
How would you even do this stuff in a DAW ? Plugins ???
Would it sound the same ?
I get similar recorded tones in Logic with just plugins. The plugins that come with Logic would do just fine, but if you really want to get close, I'd say get the Eventide H3000 plugin as well.

Double-tracked guitar bussed to auxs with multiple stereo delays set differently, stereo micropitchshift and reverb and mixed properly will sound like these examples. Pretty much indestinguishable in a full mix...

Steve
Isn't the H3000 plugin like $950 ? I mean, I don't mind paying that IF it does ALL of what a real H3000 does, but if it's only some of it ? Seems like that would be a rip off. Maybe someone knows...
 
sah5150":241fm0pp said:
paulyc":241fm0pp said:
How would you even do this stuff in a DAW ? Plugins ???
Would it sound the same ?
I get similar recorded tones in Logic with just plugins. The plugins that come with Logic would do just fine, but if you really want to get close, I'd say get the Eventide H3000 plugin as well.

Double-tracked guitar bussed to auxs with multiple stereo delays set differently, stereo micropitchshift and reverb and mixed properly will sound like these examples. Pretty much indestinguishable in a full mix...

Steve

Nope... the H3000 pluging has nothing to do with the real thing. Just marketing names...
Nope... there is no micropitch shift in what you hear there... frequency splitting, processing mid/highs in stereo, keeping lows in mono.
Looks like you can't hear that... and there's no mix.
 
sah5150":3kehcer0 said:
italoop":3kehcer0 said:
paulyc":3kehcer0 said:
How would you even do this stuff in a DAW ? Plugins ???
Would it sound the same ?

Impossible.
Routing between plugs would be really a headache... and... there are no plugins doing a lot of these effects at all.
Sound? Nope...
I don't agree with this. You can route a track to tons of auxs with plugins on them. Not sure I get why routing would be a headache? There are so many plugins available these days that I'm having trouble understanding what effects are unavailable in plugin form these days?

Steve

TONS of hardware algorithms are not available in plugins... literally hundreds!
The level of complexity in terms of effects inserted into feedback paths of other effects... can be quite intricate. Plugins are limited by pre_allocated slots in any DAW platform. You can't code a plugin bigger than a certain amount of size or it can't exceed the available power of a single computer CPU core, depending on the DAW implementation rules.
 
paulyc":19rmtjuj said:
sah5150":19rmtjuj said:
paulyc":19rmtjuj said:
How would you even do this stuff in a DAW ? Plugins ???
Would it sound the same ?
I get similar recorded tones in Logic with just plugins. The plugins that come with Logic would do just fine, but if you really want to get close, I'd say get the Eventide H3000 plugin as well.

Double-tracked guitar bussed to auxs with multiple stereo delays set differently, stereo micropitchshift and reverb and mixed properly will sound like these examples. Pretty much indestinguishable in a full mix...

Steve
Isn't the H3000 plugin like $950 ? I mean, I don't mind paying that IF it does ALL of what a real H3000 does, but if it's only some of it ? Seems like that would be a rip off. Maybe someone knows...

It doesn't do all the H3000 does.
The algorithms, most of them, do not work in the same way.
It doesn't sound like the H3000.
Just one detail... the H3000 was one of those boxes whose effects run on different sample rates... something you can't do on a DAW sytem.
Sample rate tricks, like modulation applied to it... no go on a plug!
 
The Eventide H3000... facts!!!

These algorithms can use GLIDE to get a different kind of modulation (much wider sweeping ratio/crystal sound:)
SWEPT COMBS (6 modulated delay lines)
LONG DIGIPLEX (mono delay)
DUAL DIGIPLEX (stereo/dual delay)
SWEPT REVERB (similar to SWEPT COMBS as it runs 6 modulatable delays -the difference is it uses a MULTIPLEX to manage the 6 feedbacks in a matrix recirculating all fbacks back to each single delay line).

Gliding is a wide change of delay times with a speed control that will reduce any glitching artifact, making delay change slowly and smoothly in time. The difference with chorusing is the much wider delay range you can change a delay value to another, without noise and delivering a larger ratio modulation effect, typical of analog delays. Thus deeper flanging effects and "12 strings"-like chorusing are possible, with a very transparent tone.

I have been using the H3000 since 1992 and have talked to hundreds of users at any level, including several world class studios engineers; never ever I heard of anybody using the GLIDE as an effect rather than just a way to change delay in great amounts avoiding artifacts. Even at the factory... nobody did that!
So.. what I mean is that there is a lot to explore in it as a source for new sounds not exactly known to most. There is no factory preset based on GLIDE... in 1000 presets available on board.
The key to use GLIDE is very simple:
-patch m_delay (or the single delay line(s) in the Digiplex algorithms) to the Function Generator (simply a system resident LFO). This will sweep the m_delay parameter.
-patch Function Amp (that's the F_Gen Amount parameter) to a SOFT FUNCTION*. The H3000 allows patching parameters to 4 SOFT FUNCTIONS which are simply custom parameters that will show up on the display once a patch is created. It's like having 4 Soft Knobs assigned to parameters. This patch will control how much you are sweeping the m_delay.
patch
-patch Glide Sp (speed) to another SOFT FUNCTION**. This will control how fast the GLIDE will run. You will find lower speeds sounding better.
-patch Func Freq. (the Function Generator rate) to a third SOFT FUNCTION***. This will control how fast the m_delay is being swept.
Your display will show 3 new parameters. Choose names for them. Maybe GLdepth*/GLrspeed**/GLrate***... that's ALL you'll need to use to make your presets, once you have set your 6 delays as you want.
If you use a low GLdepth by using the soft knob to shift the modulation to the lower end of m_delays (between 0% and 30% with delays set no longer than 10 ms - offset them for richer effects) you'll get tight chorusing/flanging effect... use feedback to enhance that.
Using the soft knob ro shift the m_delay to a higher sweeping range (60% to 100% with delays set between 15 and 35 ms), you'll get TC1210 chorusing.
One peculiat thing here... when you use the GLIDE as explained you won't be able to hear the single delays LFOs. Looks like there is some kind of processing priority here as GLIDE takes over single LFOs. Maybe some limitations in the power split across the 3 internal DSPs or just the way the algorithm is designed. On the PCM80/81 CHORUS you can use the GLIDE AND the 6 individual LFOs to create a very rich multiple modulation for each delay line.

If you decide to work on patching parameters to FUNCTION GENERATOR and SOFT FUNCTIONS you'll need to refer to the user manual descriptions of parameters modulation, about the range of control. That is a very important aspect of the game.

More on SWEPT REVERB...
this is the kind of reverb used by many great artists that has become the Eventide trademark for ambient reverb others try to emulate... but can't get the same depth and 3D width.
The GLIDE will sweep the base delays (6) rather than using modulation on each of them. The type of effects you can get is really stunning. IF you are not using any feedback, you will get choruses and flangers of doom. Very light feedback there... VERY. With higher feedback values you'll get delays/ambience/reverb springing from your chorus/flangers. Using the patches range values of the modulators is what will make the whole craft and art of designing sounds here. A lot of simple tweaking and listening... and great rewards to those who will venture there.
I'm 100% positive you don't need a TC1210 once you've learned to use the GLIDE on the H3000. And a lot more will be provided by the machine in this field. Dedicating an H3000 to modulation effects isn't a rare thing.
Many use it for reverb or delays only. Peter Gabriel only uses Eventides (old SP2016/H3000/DSP4000) for all his reverbs.
The common idea people used H3000 for pitch shifting, TC2290 for delay and PCM70 for reverb has always sounded very odd and limited to me.
TC2290 does some really nice chorusing; PCM70 has GREAT chorus/flangers and is a delay heaven. After almost 3 decades many folks are surprised when they discover the many other effects these units can do really well... beyond the "common thinking" ideas they had. Just don't live by the myths... tweak the boxes.


So... GLIDE and SWEPT REVERB...
Beauty in out of tune sounds....
this reminds me of the great Bill Frisell in his early ECM recordings, 1980s and early '90s, when he used to pull his Gibson SG neck to get breathing detuning effects... enhanced by the use of delays.
Frisell is one of the biggest innovators in electric guitar. He has been able to blend tradition and innovation like nobody else. Check those recordings as you'll love them...
Here's a short clip where the reverb isn't exactly modulated as most would think (or like!). The sweeping rides on the verge of usable out of tune modulation, thanks to the GLIDE applied to the m_delay parameter.
I'm using a triangle waveform... but a random one would probably make things even more interesting.
The usual 2 TC2290s are set to 800/820 ms here and are only fed from the H3000. They both extend the reverb tail and pick up the detune thru envelope modulation for some dynamic warble added. You won't notice them... but they are definitely adding magic.

Eventide H3000 FrisWepT

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A multivoice gliding flanger; delay lines use very short delay times here and the glide between min/max values is very fast. The flanger is rich and wide.

Eventide H3000 Glide Flanges


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The beauty of the MULTISHIFT algorithm!
One would think... just two shifters and delays... what the heck. Right?
Well... these 4 lines have a feedback routing matrix YOU can program to build the most unusual effects.
Here's a stunning pitch/verb you'd have a hard time to find elsewhere...

Eventide H3000 Reverse Clouds Piano

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Another H3000 classic... the STRING MODELLER, using Karplus-Strong synthesis to create resonance, tuned resonance.
Resonators were first made available on the Lexicon 224XL, then on the PCM70 and H3000... but the H3000 resonators have a special tonal quality (embedded filters) and routing tricks that allow the user to create unique spaces, in addition to tuned resonating delays.
Here you get a stunning reverb with tuned resonance you can't make in any other way.

H3000 Harmonics Hall Piano
 
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