The new Marsha sim is WOW

  • Thread starter Thread starter SkyhighRocks
  • Start date Start date
degenaro":1fu4by80 said:
sah5150":1fu4by80 said:
amiller":1fu4by80 said:
I primarily just record. I'm so tired of mic'n cabs trying to find that "sweet" spot...or any good spot. If the Axe-Fx can get a great RECORDED tube sound DIRECT...I'd be all over it! :lol: :LOL:

Watcha think? :confused:
Click to expand...
This was Axe direct and all you hear is my guitar:

Jamie's Cryin' Full Mix

I'm sure I could get closer, but this is a stock preset and a $10 redwirez basketweave cab sim... There is absolutely no easier way to get killer recorded guitar tones than the Axe... I have had guitar players tell me that they didn't realize it wasn't the original until I mentioned it...

Steve
Click to expand...
Dude...that clip is awesome!
Click to expand...
Thanks Ed - stock preset, direct and all... :rock:

Steve
 
Some of you bitches are going to get it now, Ed is going to beat your asses with his Strudel :lol: :LOL:
 
SkyhighRocks":2ls591s2 said:
sah5150":2ls591s2 said:
SkyhighRocks":2ls591s2 said:
sah5150":2ls591s2 said:
This was Axe direct and all you hear is my guitar:

Jamie's Cryin' Full Mix

I'm sure I could get closer, but this is a stock preset and a $10 redwirez basketweave cab sim... There is absolutely no easier way to get killer recorded guitar tones than the Axe...

Steve
Click to expand...

Hey Steve...which cabinet is that? there are a few of the basketweaves...
Click to expand...
'68 Marshall Basketweave • Vintage G12M25s - Shure SM57 straight on cone 0 inches...

Steve
Click to expand...

cool...thank you
Click to expand...
NP!

Steve
 
sah5150":5wpb9wem said:
...This was Axe direct and all you hear is my guitar:

Jamie's Cryin' Full Mix

I'm sure I could get closer, but this is a stock preset and a $10 redwirez basketweave cab sim... There is absolutely no easier way to get killer recorded guitar tones than the Axe... I have had guitar players tell me that they didn't realize it wasn't the original until I mentioned it...

Steve
Click to expand...

Thanks...

It sounds cool on my iPhone...I'll have to check it out on real speakers when I get home.
 
I think it as an apples to apples comparison as you can get. The only unknown variable is the Faustine's line circuit and how accurate does it reproduce the amp signal. I do the same thing but with a weber line out and I don't think I get a very accurate signal. Pete's recording sounds much brighter than what I am getting and I'm using a G12m on axis on the cap redwire IR.

So my only question in this test would be how good a signal the Faustine's line out is. Sounds pretty good from this test.

Another way would be to mic the cab and swap out the Marsha with the AxeFX and power amp into it the cab. It'd be kind of interesting to hear that result.

I don't think recording with a miced cab on the Marsha and direct from the Axe would be an apples to apples comparison. Too many variables to nit pick over.
 
Man some of these responces are moving towards Dumblator territory and using calipers to measure the loop cable lenghts with uni-directional copper.
 
petethorn":tj0aslsh said:
this is a copy of a post I made on TGP, some guys over there were poo-pooing the idea of loading the amp and using IR's in my Marsha comparo, so I made a quick clip to show what the loaded amp sounds like compared to the same amp mic'd:

Guys just so you can hear what a mic'd greenback sounds like vs. the loaded down amp/red wirez IR:

I did a quick clip. No mystery here- The 1st part is a PT100 proto, into a /13 2-12", mic'd with a 57, where the cap meets the cone about a 1/2inch off the grillecloth. Into an API pre into logic.

2nd part is the same amp sound, into a THD Hotplate set for load, (my Faustine is not here, so I used the THD which is a fixed load ) line out of Hotplate into my Apogee Ensemble, into Logic/Red Wirez IR with a Marshall 1960a and 57 1" off grille at cap edge. These are not gonna sound the same of course- different cab, different room, different pre (the Red Wirez are neve pres I think). And though I dig the Hotplate for what it is I prefer the Faustine.

But you can hear at least the same amp, through a real cab, mic and pre, and then the effect of the load into a IR.

Yes I prefer the real mic situation but I think most will agree the load/IR setup is far from "terrible" as a previous poster stated. It really captures the basic sound really well. And it's something you can use at 2 am. Through headphones. There's no eq here, no tweaking at all- just the raw sounds.

IR's are a viable option for lotsa situations where miking just isn't feasible. I am here to dispel myths!!!! This is my purpose!!

http://music.mp3lizard.com/peterthorn/

click on G12m/57 vs Red Wirez IR
Click to expand...
That's a fairly significant difference. That is the same thing I get at home with the weber line out into IRs. It's just not as present and as full sounding as a miced cab. However, it's very acceptable for messing around and recording ideas.

petethorn":tj0aslsh said:
And though I dig the Hotplate for what it is I prefer the Faustine.
Click to expand...
You mean in terms of the line out?
 
sah5150":165ehkz6 said:
This was Axe direct and all you hear is my guitar:

Jamie's Cryin' Full Mix

I'm sure I could get closer, but this is a stock preset and a $10 redwirez basketweave cab sim... There is absolutely no easier way to get killer recorded guitar tones than the Axe... I have had guitar players tell me that they didn't realize it wasn't the original until I mentioned it...

Steve
Click to expand...

Two words - Fire Sale!!

I gotta have an Ultra! :rock:
 
Rogue":1b85f54z said:
I don't think recording with a miced cab on the Marsha and direct from the Axe would be an apples to apples comparison. Too many variables to nit pick over.
Click to expand...

While I agree to an extent... you have the IR's coloring the Marsha possibly making them sound similar. One of the biggest tone components in a rig is the speakers. I still think it would be a good comparison to do what the Axe is claiming to do.... offer very accurate digital representation of a real mic'd amp and cab. Why not try and see? :yes:
 
ejecta":38c6negf said:
Rogue":38c6negf said:
I don't think recording with a miced cab on the Marsha and direct from the Axe would be an apples to apples comparison. Too many variables to nit pick over.
Click to expand...

While I agree to an extent... you have the IR's coloring the Marsha possibly making them sound similar. One of the biggest tone components in a rig is the speakers. I still think it would be a good comparison to do what the Axe is claiming to do.... offer very accurate digital representation of a real mic'd amp and cab. Why not try and see? :yes:
Click to expand...
of course they color it...but then so does a speaker. works the other way around too...Axe-fx into guitar cab will sound closer tohead and cab imo.
 
ejecta":2k10qvfd said:
While I agree to an extent... you have the IR's coloring the Marsha possibly making them sound similar. One of the biggest tone components in a rig is the speakers. I still think it would be a good comparison to do what the Axe is claiming to do.... offer very accurate digital representation of a real mic'd amp and cab. Why not try and see? :yes:
Click to expand...
Well, that would a test to see which method actually records the best. But if we want to eliminate as many variables and just test the amp sim, this is as good as any. Or doing as I mentioned earlier and using a miced cab for both the Marsha and AxeFX.

If we direct record the AxeFX and it doesn't sound as good as a miced Marsha, we haven't really shown anything of value. If we mic a cab and use the Marsha and the AxeFX with the same cab and mic, we can here the amp and amp sim compared without other variables.

If the AxeFX sounds better through a miced cabinet then we've shown a miced cab sounds better than direct methods....which Pete's above link would suggest. If that's the case, nothing is stopping the AxeFX from being recorded with a miced cab if that sounds the best. We aren't looking to compare recording methods, we're looking to compare the amp and the amp sim.
 
Rogue":3jccf8kk said:
petethorn":3jccf8kk said:
this is a copy of a post I made on TGP, some guys over there were poo-pooing the idea of loading the amp and using IR's in my Marsha comparo, so I made a quick clip to show what the loaded amp sounds like compared to the same amp mic'd:

Guys just so you can hear what a mic'd greenback sounds like vs. the loaded down amp/red wirez IR:

I did a quick clip. No mystery here- The 1st part is a PT100 proto, into a /13 2-12", mic'd with a 57, where the cap meets the cone about a 1/2inch off the grillecloth. Into an API pre into logic.

2nd part is the same amp sound, into a THD Hotplate set for load, (my Faustine is not here, so I used the THD which is a fixed load ) line out of Hotplate into my Apogee Ensemble, into Logic/Red Wirez IR with a Marshall 1960a and 57 1" off grille at cap edge. These are not gonna sound the same of course- different cab, different room, different pre (the Red Wirez are neve pres I think). And though I dig the Hotplate for what it is I prefer the Faustine.

But you can hear at least the same amp, through a real cab, mic and pre, and then the effect of the load into a IR.

Yes I prefer the real mic situation but I think most will agree the load/IR setup is far from "terrible" as a previous poster stated. It really captures the basic sound really well. And it's something you can use at 2 am. Through headphones. There's no eq here, no tweaking at all- just the raw sounds.

IR's are a viable option for lotsa situations where miking just isn't feasible. I am here to dispel myths!!!! This is my purpose!!

http://music.mp3lizard.com/peterthorn/

click on G12m/57 vs Red Wirez IR
Click to expand...
That's a fairly significant difference. That is the same thing I get at home with the weber line out into IRs. It's just not as present and as full sounding as a miced cab. However, it's very acceptable for messing around and recording ideas.

petethorn":3jccf8kk said:
And though I dig the Hotplate for what it is I prefer the Faustine.
Click to expand...
You mean in terms of the line out?
Click to expand...

ok your post got me thinking, and I realized there was a better way to do this-

I have a Suhr line out box that you plug in between the speaker out of the head and the cab. It takes a tap off the amp while passing the signal through to the speaker too. The amp is still pluggen into the speaker (in this case, the cab is iso'd in my closet and is just used as a load.. you aren't hearing it).

It sounded MUCH better than the Hotplate method. Brighter, clearer.

I believe the Faustine line out sounds much like this. Because of the reactive vs. fixed load factor.

So I'm replacing the 2nd half of the G12m vs redwirez IR file with this new file... whew... following me? Just replacing the line out /IR part with a better sounding line out.

what you now hear is:

PT100- G12m- SM57- API- logic, vs:
PT100- suhr ISO line out box (with cab as load) iso into Apogee Ensemble, with red wirez G12m sim, cap edge .5 in with a 57.
 
degenaro":24fuf6zu said:
ejecta":24fuf6zu said:
Rogue":24fuf6zu said:
I don't think recording with a miced cab on the Marsha and direct from the Axe would be an apples to apples comparison. Too many variables to nit pick over.
Click to expand...

While I agree to an extent... you have the IR's coloring the Marsha possibly making them sound similar. One of the biggest tone components in a rig is the speakers. I still think it would be a good comparison to do what the Axe is claiming to do.... offer very accurate digital representation of a real mic'd amp and cab. Why not try and see? :yes:
Click to expand...
of course they color it...but then so does a speaker. works the other way around too...Axe-fx into guitar cab will sound closer tohead and cab imo.
Click to expand...

Well duh.... :D I know that Ed. I still think it would be an interesting comparison to put a real Marsha through a real Green Back cab and record it with a certain mic and position and do the same with the Axe but using a Red Wire GB cab, same mic, and postion IR you used to record the actual cab and see how they compare.
 
Rogue":3t87mued said:
I think it as an apples to apples comparison as you can get. The only unknown variable is the Faustine's line circuit and how accurate does it reproduce the amp signal. I do the same thing but with a weber line out and I don't think I get a very accurate signal. Pete's recording sounds much brighter than what I am getting and I'm using a G12m on axis on the cap redwire IR.

So my only question in this test would be how good a signal the Faustine's line out is. Sounds pretty good from this test.

Another way would be to mic the cab and swap out the Marsha with the AxeFX and power amp into it the cab. It'd be kind of interesting to hear that result.

I don't think recording with a miced cab on the Marsha and direct from the Axe would be an apples to apples comparison. Too many variables to nit pick over.
Click to expand...
The thing with line-out signals post power amp is that they the furthest from what I expect a truthful respresentation sound /look like. Until the speaker imparts it's character on it it's a super compressed mess. So it really is a lot less of a varaible then one would think.
 
petethorn":23pxz0q0 said:
Rogue":23pxz0q0 said:
petethorn":23pxz0q0 said:
this is a copy of a post I made on TGP, some guys over there were poo-pooing the idea of loading the amp and using IR's in my Marsha comparo, so I made a quick clip to show what the loaded amp sounds like compared to the same amp mic'd:

Guys just so you can hear what a mic'd greenback sounds like vs. the loaded down amp/red wirez IR:

I did a quick clip. No mystery here- The 1st part is a PT100 proto, into a /13 2-12", mic'd with a 57, where the cap meets the cone about a 1/2inch off the grillecloth. Into an API pre into logic.

2nd part is the same amp sound, into a THD Hotplate set for load, (my Faustine is not here, so I used the THD which is a fixed load ) line out of Hotplate into my Apogee Ensemble, into Logic/Red Wirez IR with a Marshall 1960a and 57 1" off grille at cap edge. These are not gonna sound the same of course- different cab, different room, different pre (the Red Wirez are neve pres I think). And though I dig the Hotplate for what it is I prefer the Faustine.

But you can hear at least the same amp, through a real cab, mic and pre, and then the effect of the load into a IR.

Yes I prefer the real mic situation but I think most will agree the load/IR setup is far from "terrible" as a previous poster stated. It really captures the basic sound really well. And it's something you can use at 2 am. Through headphones. There's no eq here, no tweaking at all- just the raw sounds.

IR's are a viable option for lotsa situations where miking just isn't feasible. I am here to dispel myths!!!! This is my purpose!!

http://music.mp3lizard.com/peterthorn/

click on G12m/57 vs Red Wirez IR
Click to expand...
That's a fairly significant difference. That is the same thing I get at home with the weber line out into IRs. It's just not as present and as full sounding as a miced cab. However, it's very acceptable for messing around and recording ideas.

petethorn":23pxz0q0 said:
And though I dig the Hotplate for what it is I prefer the Faustine.
Click to expand...
You mean in terms of the line out?
Click to expand...

ok your post got me thinking, and I realized there was a better way to do this-

I have a Suhr line out box that you plug in between the speaker out of the head and the cab. It takes a tap off the amp while passing the signal through to the speaker too. The amp is still pluggen into the speaker (in this case, the cab is iso'd in my closet and is just used as a load.. you aren't hearing it).

It sounded MUCH better than the Hotplate method. Brighter, clearer.

I believe the Faustine line out sounds much like this. Because of the reactive vs. fixed load factor.

So I'm replacing the 2nd half of the G12m vs redwirez IR file with this new file... whew... following me? Just replacing the line out /IR part with a better sounding line out.

what you now hear is:

PT100- G12m- SM57- API- logic, vs:
PT100- suhr ISO line out box (with cab as load) iso into Apogee Ensemble, with red wirez G12m sim, cap edge .5 in with a 57.
Click to expand...

Cool! I was actually telling Rogue on the phone the other day to try one of those Suhr ISO's to get his line signal to the computer. I had one for a WDW rig and loved it. I'd love to hear the differences when get them recorded. Thanks again Pete! I think these threads can be fun. :thumbsup:
 
petethorn":3hpj4nyh said:
Rogue":3hpj4nyh said:
petethorn":3hpj4nyh said:
this is a copy of a post I made on TGP, some guys over there were poo-pooing the idea of loading the amp and using IR's in my Marsha comparo, so I made a quick clip to show what the loaded amp sounds like compared to the same amp mic'd:

Guys just so you can hear what a mic'd greenback sounds like vs. the loaded down amp/red wirez IR:

I did a quick clip. No mystery here- The 1st part is a PT100 proto, into a /13 2-12", mic'd with a 57, where the cap meets the cone about a 1/2inch off the grillecloth. Into an API pre into logic.

2nd part is the same amp sound, into a THD Hotplate set for load, (my Faustine is not here, so I used the THD which is a fixed load ) line out of Hotplate into my Apogee Ensemble, into Logic/Red Wirez IR with a Marshall 1960a and 57 1" off grille at cap edge. These are not gonna sound the same of course- different cab, different room, different pre (the Red Wirez are neve pres I think). And though I dig the Hotplate for what it is I prefer the Faustine.

But you can hear at least the same amp, through a real cab, mic and pre, and then the effect of the load into a IR.

Yes I prefer the real mic situation but I think most will agree the load/IR setup is far from "terrible" as a previous poster stated. It really captures the basic sound really well. And it's something you can use at 2 am. Through headphones. There's no eq here, no tweaking at all- just the raw sounds.

IR's are a viable option for lotsa situations where miking just isn't feasible. I am here to dispel myths!!!! This is my purpose!!

http://music.mp3lizard.com/peterthorn/

click on G12m/57 vs Red Wirez IR
Click to expand...
That's a fairly significant difference. That is the same thing I get at home with the weber line out into IRs. It's just not as present and as full sounding as a miced cab. However, it's very acceptable for messing around and recording ideas.

petethorn":3hpj4nyh said:
And though I dig the Hotplate for what it is I prefer the Faustine.
Click to expand...
You mean in terms of the line out?
Click to expand...

ok your post got me thinking, and I realized there was a better way to do this-

I have a Suhr line out box that you plug in between the speaker out of the head and the cab. It takes a tap off the amp while passing the signal through to the speaker too. The amp is still pluggen into the speaker (in this case, the cab is iso'd in my closet and is just used as a load.. you aren't hearing it).

It sounded MUCH better than the Hotplate method. Brighter, clearer.

I believe the Faustine line out sounds much like this. Because of the reactive vs. fixed load factor.

So I'm replacing the 2nd half of the G12m vs redwirez IR file with this new file... whew... following me? Just replacing the line out /IR part with a better sounding line out.

what you now hear is:

PT100- G12m- SM57- API- logic, vs:
PT100- suhr ISO line out box (with cab as load) iso into Apogee Ensemble, with red wirez G12m sim, cap edge .5 in with a 57.
Click to expand...
If it was brighter than the Hot Plate it's due to the HPs bright switch being in the on position (works in reverse on the line-out).
 
petethorn":3uhlitfi said:
ok your post got me thinking, and I realized there was a better way to do this-

I have a Suhr line out box that you plug in between the speaker out of the head and the cab. It takes a tap off the amp while passing the signal through to the speaker too. The amp is still pluggen into the speaker (in this case, the cab is iso'd in my closet and is just used as a load.. you aren't hearing it).

It sounded MUCH better than the Hotplate method. Brighter, clearer.

I believe the Faustine line out sounds much like this. Because of the reactive vs. fixed load factor.

So I'm replacing the 2nd half of the G12m vs redwirez IR file with this new file... whew... following me? Just replacing the line out /IR part with a better sounding line out.

what you now hear is:

PT100- G12m- SM57- API- logic, vs:
PT100- suhr ISO line out box (with cab as load) iso into Apogee Ensemble, with red wirez G12m sim, cap edge .5 in with a 57.
Click to expand...
Thanks for doing that. Miced cab still wins, IMO. I'm sure some IR swapping and EQing could get them closer though.

I don't suppose you have the old mp3 to compare the new one with, do you? I'd like to compare the Hotplate lineout to the Suhr line out, since I'm looking into a a better signal for direct recording.
 
ejecta":30mycqom said:
degenaro":30mycqom said:
ejecta":30mycqom said:
Rogue":30mycqom said:
I don't think recording with a miced cab on the Marsha and direct from the Axe would be an apples to apples comparison. Too many variables to nit pick over.
Click to expand...

While I agree to an extent... you have the IR's coloring the Marsha possibly making them sound similar. One of the biggest tone components in a rig is the speakers. I still think it would be a good comparison to do what the Axe is claiming to do.... offer very accurate digital representation of a real mic'd amp and cab. Why not try and see? :yes:
Click to expand...
of course they color it...but then so does a speaker. works the other way around too...Axe-fx into guitar cab will sound closer tohead and cab imo.
Click to expand...

Well duh.... :D I know that Ed. I still think it would be an interesting comparison to put a real Marsha through a real Green Back cab and record it with a certain mic and position and do the same with the Axe but using a Red Wire GB cab, same mic, and postion IR you used to record the actual cab and see how they compare.
Click to expand...
If you wanna go that far some one should bust out waves q-clone and clone the mic/cab set-up and then run the Axe through that...
 
Rogue":yktmb6ij said:
petethorn":yktmb6ij said:
ok your post got me thinking, and I realized there was a better way to do this-

I have a Suhr line out box that you plug in between the speaker out of the head and the cab. It takes a tap off the amp while passing the signal through to the speaker too. The amp is still pluggen into the speaker (in this case, the cab is iso'd in my closet and is just used as a load.. you aren't hearing it).

It sounded MUCH better than the Hotplate method. Brighter, clearer.

I believe the Faustine line out sounds much like this. Because of the reactive vs. fixed load factor.

So I'm replacing the 2nd half of the G12m vs redwirez IR file with this new file... whew... following me? Just replacing the line out /IR part with a better sounding line out.

what you now hear is:

PT100- G12m- SM57- API- logic, vs:
PT100- suhr ISO line out box (with cab as load) iso into Apogee Ensemble, with red wirez G12m sim, cap edge .5 in with a 57.
Click to expand...
Thanks for doing that. Miced cab still wins, IMO. I'm sure some IR swapping and EQing could get them closer though.

I don't suppose you have the old mp3 to compare the new one with, do you? I'd like to compare the Hotplate lineout to the Suhr line out, since I'm looking into a a better signal for direct recording.
Click to expand...


sure just PM me your email.. i'll send you both.

I'm kinda having a revelation here right now, I actually think the Suhr version sounds incredible- maybe better than the mic'd cab.
 
degenaro":e4c6j3je said:
ejecta":e4c6j3je said:
degenaro":e4c6j3je said:
ejecta":e4c6j3je said:
Rogue":e4c6j3je said:
I don't think recording with a miced cab on the Marsha and direct from the Axe would be an apples to apples comparison. Too many variables to nit pick over.
Click to expand...

While I agree to an extent... you have the IR's coloring the Marsha possibly making them sound similar. One of the biggest tone components in a rig is the speakers. I still think it would be a good comparison to do what the Axe is claiming to do.... offer very accurate digital representation of a real mic'd amp and cab. Why not try and see? :yes:
Click to expand...
of course they color it...but then so does a speaker. works the other way around too...Axe-fx into guitar cab will sound closer tohead and cab imo.
Click to expand...

Well duh.... :D I know that Ed. I still think it would be an interesting comparison to put a real Marsha through a real Green Back cab and record it with a certain mic and position and do the same with the Axe but using a Red Wire GB cab, same mic, and postion IR you used to record the actual cab and see how they compare.
Click to expand...
If you wanna go that far some one should bust out waves q-clone and clone the mic/cab set-up and then run the Axe through that...
Click to expand...

That would be cool! :yes:
 
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