NAD: Diezel Herbert mkII

I was playing through my Suhr Reactive Load and Axe2 for cab IR's, but that is only rated at 100W. Since I have to play at apartment volume levels, picked up a Fryette Power Station 2 (rated at 150W) and a Bogner OS 2x12 cab (V30's). Sounds really massive at low volumes and really loving the sound. The Fryette PS2 is a pretty damn cool device and works really well with the Herbert. Herbert also sounds good without the PS at low volumes, but it does feel like a little something extra by pushing the master up a little.

I do boost with the Savage Drive and that is a match made in heaven...
 
LunatiBSW":3744k2yq said:
Wizard of Ozz":3744k2yq said:
mhenson42":3744k2yq said:
LunatiBSW":3744k2yq said:
sg guy":3744k2yq said:
-I'm a former HERB owner, what's the difference between the first & MK II's?

No exactly sure. Don't think too many folks have had both besides Wizard of OzZ

I've had both. There's not really a tonal difference between the two. MK1 may be preferable to some since you can get one with external bias, that's about it.

I'd say the MKII and MKI sound about 80% the same. The clean channel stays cleaner at volume and bit louder overall on the MKII. The 3rd channel stays tighter and sounds brighter due to the bigger output transformer on the MKII. Both are great amps.

Peter mentions the differences in the Herbert video they recently put on YouTube.

Good to hear, I trust your ears....

I'm in chugg heaven with the Herbert mkII and my k100 fl cab. Shit. V30's sound a little more versatile with it. But all out metal goes to the k100 With this amp.....DAMN

Sounds like you really dig those K100's. Did you ever play your D-Moll through K100's? I want to try some, I think they would be tighter on the lows than my V30's.
 
Crunchtime":13el4ra8 said:
LunatiBSW":13el4ra8 said:
Wizard of Ozz":13el4ra8 said:
mhenson42":13el4ra8 said:
LunatiBSW":13el4ra8 said:
sg guy":13el4ra8 said:
-I'm a former HERB owner, what's the difference between the first & MK II's?

No exactly sure. Don't think too many folks have had both besides Wizard of OzZ

I've had both. There's not really a tonal difference between the two. MK1 may be preferable to some since you can get one with external bias, that's about it.

I'd say the MKII and MKI sound about 80% the same. The clean channel stays cleaner at volume and bit louder overall on the MKII. The 3rd channel stays tighter and sounds brighter due to the bigger output transformer on the MKII. Both are great amps.

Peter mentions the differences in the Herbert video they recently put on YouTube.

Good to hear, I trust your ears....

I'm in chugg heaven with the Herbert mkII and my k100 fl cab. Shit. V30's sound a little more versatile with it. But all out metal goes to the k100 With this amp.....DAMN

Sounds like you really dig those K100's. Did you ever play your D-Moll through K100's? I want to try some, I think they would be tighter on the lows than my V30's.

I a/b'd the Herbert and dmoll through Diezel fl k100 cab. Made the dmoll sound tighter, with more attack through the k100's, but then I switched to the Herbert. Hell broke loose, and was consumed by a wall of anger
 
stratjacket":3djyxpbq said:
I was playing through my Suhr Reactive Load and Axe2 for cab IR's, but that is only rated at 100W. Since I have to play at apartment volume levels, picked up a Fryette Power Station 2 (rated at 150W) and a Bogner OS 2x12 cab (V30's). Sounds really massive at low volumes and really loving the sound. The Fryette PS2 is a pretty damn cool device and works really well with the Herbert. Herbert also sounds good without the PS at low volumes, but it does feel like a little something extra by pushing the master up a little.

I do boost with the Savage Drive and that is a match made in heaven...

How good would you say the PS2 does for getting lows like the Herbert ?

Does it cut them off or reshape them ?
 
Wizard of Ozz":1k57wsb9 said:
RJF":1k57wsb9 said:
LunatiBSW":1k57wsb9 said:
RJF":1k57wsb9 said:
There's not much difference between MK1 and 2 Herberts. One of the transformers is different and there is more headroom on the clean channel. Why that was changed, I have no idea. A MK1 can get blazingly loud on CH1 while still being clean. The Herbert to own, IMHO, is a MK1 with external bias points. It's so easy to change tubes and rebias when you have external test points and pots.


Imho, tube changes are like yearly or every other year for me, plus I like seeing the guts.
The guy above also still took the chassis out, so that's the same work.
I'd rather have the better tone. Bigger tranny = bigger tone. Everyone's ears are diff, some people can't tell difference between non similar amps, so your opinions are your opinions. I feel like there is some defensiveness with the mk1 and II thing. Y'all say small differences. But most of us spend a primo on these boutique amps because we have more discerning ears. We can tell the differences
But in my experience with business, new revisions are warranted when there are significant enough changes from an original.
I'm not gonna by an old One to compare, but Since I know wizard of ozz had his mk1 for over 5 years and now has extensive knowledge with mkII (owning, not just playing a few times), and we have similar styles and tastes. Im going to trust his judgement on the tone.
sorry to say there's gonna be differences. It doesn't make the mk1 bad, just the OG.
I love my Herbert MkII, it's a lifer amp. Gives me lowend like no other.
Volumes sound as good or better at tv volumes than any high gainer out, you turn it up, it gets better, doesn't fall apart. Heavy, biggest transformers I've seen in an amp.

Still wouldn't mind trying a wizard sometime though. But the herb wouldn't leave to do it.
You don't have to remove the chassis from the headshell if you are using a multi meter. With a bias right type tool, yes. But, that is what is nice about external bias points. No need for a bias right.

There was a lot of talk about the mk1 vs mk2 years ago on the Diezel forum when the Mk2 actually came out. Most people, and Peter included, said that there was very little to no tone change on channel 2 and 3. Peter said it was mainly to address clean channel break up issues and to comply with new German law to no longer have external test points. I wouldn't buy into any high gain tone changes unless only one set of preamp and power amp tubes are used and swapped between the two Herberts to get a real A/B comparison, and to my knowledge no one has done here on RT. Supposedly, the best sounding Herberts are the very first few with the cloth grille that were voiced initially a bit tighter. Never heard or seen one in person myself though.

Yes, I run a boost 100% of the time, with it set exactly like how you posted in that Dmoll thread of yours. Without it, it's just not the same.

lumbergh.jpg


Ummm... yeah... I'm going have to disagree with some of this... ummmm.... okay?

Peter states really clearly, and concisely what the differences are between the MKI & MKII in the Herbert video right here posted on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUAo_Nmw4zM

Both the power and output transformers were changed. They are now much bigger and heavier... the total amp weight increased by 3 pounds. That's a good amount of steel and iron. And you bet that will change the tone.

The original Herbert MKI design, which has the first 20 amps, really wasn't a huge success as it was a very tight, super focused amp with nowhere near the amount of bottom end it has now. More like a Randall Satan or Fryette UL for a tone reference. There were only 2 USA dealers when they were released in the USA around 2002 thereabouts, which were Tone Merchants in CA (Ed Yoon) and UltraSound Studios in NYC (Gene/Ken). Peter and Ed at TM tweaked the design quite a bit from the original 20 production units to add a bunch more additional bass, and the voicing of the channel 2 "+" mode, and work on the clean channel. There is also a MK1.5 version that occurred somewhere around serial #100-120 where the clean channel was made to have more chime, and high-end treble like a Fender Blackface Twin (aka clean channel mod). No former owner that I know would take one of the 1st 20 Herbert over the current incarnation. They are very different amps.




-FUCK!!!... 3 pounds of transformer is FUCKIN huge!! I'm a big believe in "BIG IRON = BIG TONE" ya don't fuck with HERB,.. HERB will fuck you up!!
 
sg guy":tgl2f8ea said:
Wizard of Ozz":tgl2f8ea said:
RJF":tgl2f8ea said:
LunatiBSW":tgl2f8ea said:
RJF":tgl2f8ea said:
There's not much difference between MK1 and 2 Herberts. One of the transformers is different and there is more headroom on the clean channel. Why that was changed, I have no idea. A MK1 can get blazingly loud on CH1 while still being clean. The Herbert to own, IMHO, is a MK1 with external bias points. It's so easy to change tubes and rebias when you have external test points and pots.


Imho, tube changes are like yearly or every other year for me, plus I like seeing the guts.
The guy above also still took the chassis out, so that's the same work.
I'd rather have the better tone. Bigger tranny = bigger tone. Everyone's ears are diff, some people can't tell difference between non similar amps, so your opinions are your opinions. I feel like there is some defensiveness with the mk1 and II thing. Y'all say small differences. But most of us spend a primo on these boutique amps because we have more discerning ears. We can tell the differences
But in my experience with business, new revisions are warranted when there are significant enough changes from an original.
I'm not gonna by an old One to compare, but Since I know wizard of ozz had his mk1 for over 5 years and now has extensive knowledge with mkII (owning, not just playing a few times), and we have similar styles and tastes. Im going to trust his judgement on the tone.
sorry to say there's gonna be differences. It doesn't make the mk1 bad, just the OG.
I love my Herbert MkII, it's a lifer amp. Gives me lowend like no other.
Volumes sound as good or better at tv volumes than any high gainer out, you turn it up, it gets better, doesn't fall apart. Heavy, biggest transformers I've seen in an amp.

Still wouldn't mind trying a wizard sometime though. But the herb wouldn't leave to do it.
You don't have to remove the chassis from the headshell if you are using a multi meter. With a bias right type tool, yes. But, that is what is nice about external bias points. No need for a bias right.

There was a lot of talk about the mk1 vs mk2 years ago on the Diezel forum when the Mk2 actually came out. Most people, and Peter included, said that there was very little to no tone change on channel 2 and 3. Peter said it was mainly to address clean channel break up issues and to comply with new German law to no longer have external test points. I wouldn't buy into any high gain tone changes unless only one set of preamp and power amp tubes are used and swapped between the two Herberts to get a real A/B comparison, and to my knowledge no one has done here on RT. Supposedly, the best sounding Herberts are the very first few with the cloth grille that were voiced initially a bit tighter. Never heard or seen one in person myself though.

Yes, I run a boost 100% of the time, with it set exactly like how you posted in that Dmoll thread of yours. Without it, it's just not the same.

lumbergh.jpg


Ummm... yeah... I'm going have to disagree with some of this... ummmm.... okay?

Peter states really clearly, and concisely what the differences are between the MKI & MKII in the Herbert video right here posted on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUAo_Nmw4zM

Both the power and output transformers were changed. They are now much bigger and heavier... the total amp weight increased by 3 pounds. That's a good amount of steel and iron. And you bet that will change the tone.

The original Herbert MKI design, which has the first 20 amps, really wasn't a huge success as it was a very tight, super focused amp with nowhere near the amount of bottom end it has now. More like a Randall Satan or Fryette UL for a tone reference. There were only 2 USA dealers when they were released in the USA around 2002 thereabouts, which were Tone Merchants in CA (Ed Yoon) and UltraSound Studios in NYC (Gene/Ken). Peter and Ed at TM tweaked the design quite a bit from the original 20 production units to add a bunch more additional bass, and the voicing of the channel 2 "+" mode, and work on the clean channel. There is also a MK1.5 version that occurred somewhere around serial #100-120 where the clean channel was made to have more chime, and high-end treble like a Fender Blackface Twin (aka clean channel mod). No former owner that I know would take one of the 1st 20 Herbert over the current incarnation. They are very different amps.




-FUCK!!!... 3 pounds of transformer is FUCKIN huge!! I'm a big believe in "BIG IRON = BIG TONE" ya don't fuck with HERB,.. HERB will fuck you up!!


+1.....you can tell a difference with bigger iron, at least I can and have. And yes by far the heaviest amp. But soooo worth it
 
After reading this thread I decided to play my Herbert. I haven't played it in quite some time. As I played, I remembered what an amazing and inspirational amp it is. It kicks major butt. A metal beast.

Anyway, a funny thing happened.

I was playing around this volume:

File%2027-04-2017%2002%2029%2030_zpsy6wtclgs.jpeg


It still managed to create a minor earthquake and this happened:

File%2027-04-2017%2002%2028%2028_zpshzbmtyar.jpeg



The halogen bulb came off from its socket :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
-ya can't leave HERB unattended, HERB gets pissed, tonight the light, tomorrow!!!.. whatever you do, never!.. and I mean ever!!.. look HERB directly in the eye!!!
 
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