Low end in guitar sound

C

Cornfordcrunch

New member
The older I get, the less low end I use in my guitar sound. When recording, I typically hi-pass at 100 or even a bit higher sometimes and it seems most sound engineers do roughly the same in a live environment to keep guitar out of the subs. Like a lot of us here it seems, I nod to the VH, Scorps, Warren D, Ronnie LeTekro thing etc...plexi/modded plexi sounds.

Over and over I see people talking about the "huge bottom" a particular amp/cab has. Even with extended range guitars I would think the same rules apply as far as staying within your space in the sonic spectrum...getting out of the bass player/kick drum space...etc with regard to low end.

What am I missing? Is this monster low end mostly for home playing alone? Playing in clubs where only the vocals are carried by the PA? Im not trying to be a dick, I'm curious if my approach is skewed.
 
I don't think your view is skewed. I have to contend with the bass drum, bass player and keyboards. I've got nothing but the mids! What sounds great in the basement alone 99% of the time doesn't translate well to a mix onstage. Low end on guitar usually gets lost in the mix. Maybe with detuned or 7 strings and metal I can see where it might be useful, but that's not my genre.

LP into a JCM800 combo, mids at 6, M65 Creamback, hitting it with the KOKO Boost (boosting the mids) and a TS for solos. I'm all mids and I own that shit! You can hear me in the mix and I step on no toes.
 
It very much depends on the style of music being played.

The bass guitar is actually a full range instrument like a keyboard.... But often people tend to keep it at the bottom.

Cutting bass not only opens that space in a mix it makes the guitar sound tighter and a faster attack. The more you cut the faster the attack.

Using a HPF can be very useful for controlling the sound. I'm surprised more pedals do not have a adjustable HPF.
 
Excessive lows is a fools game when youre playing live with a band as already pointed out.. I guess it works for some styles.. I guess
 
Like most things there are degrees. Playing the bass I think helps understand how things should fit together. I use 5-string basses and found that I prefer cabinets that don't have a ton of frequency response down around the low-B fundamental. That might seem odd, but if the cab extends that low, it sounds overbearing and "slow" to me. Turns out there's plenty of content in the overtones.

Somewhat similar with guitars. You kinda want to stick within a range of frequencies. Going too high or low often sounds weird or gets in the way of the other instruments. But within the range, you can boost or cut, and maybe some guys prefer boosting that lower range, and whatever works for them.

I suspect most people like guitars with lots of "low end" but high-passed to lop off stuff that's too low to be useful.
 
We're old farts. I have an old fart friend who plays bass with kids (under 40) in a screamo band and he's told me the 2 guitarists play 8 string guitars and they carry the bottom end. His bass is pretty bright and deliberately occupies a spectrum above the guitars.
 
It's always guys that don't play in a band wishing they had more low end. Once you account for the kick and your bassist, you really don't need much low end.
 
You are correct. However the huge low end in guitars can/does work with some music styles, and mixes. For it to work the bass, and the kick have to be EQ'ed different from the traditional.
 
stephen sawall":wb17wpfo said:
It very much depends on the style of music being played.
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My thoughts exactly. Most bands with really low end guitar tend to have bass players that dial in uber treble/mid range tones.
 
Yep, and yep. Most of the guys who are all about huge low end are bedroom players. Once you get into the world of playing live, and ESPECIALLY recording, you realize that it's more important to get the guitar to sit right in the mix that just what it sounds like by itself.

Many times, in the studio, the tone coming out of the amp is NOT what you get once it's mixed with other guitars, bass, etc.
 
reverymike":nlodyu3e said:
Yep, and yep. Most of the guys who are all about huge low end are bedroom players. Once you get into the world of playing live, and ESPECIALLY recording, you realize that it's more important to get the guitar to sit right in the mix that just what it sounds like by itself.

Many times, in the studio, the tone coming out of the amp is NOT what you get once it's mixed with other guitars, bass, etc.
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This has absolutely been my experience. Every major album you've ever heard, and I mean EVERY one has the guitar bass frequencies rolled off. In the case with songs/albums that have a bunch of guitars layered upon one another, the roll-off is even more aggressive, as you can get "build up" in the low end from the same instrument being tracked multiple times.
 
It's not like isolated guitar tracks sound shrill. There's still plenty of bottom end. You just don't want it boomy etc.
 
Hell man, I've become convinced that there aren't a whole lot of hard rules when it comes to tone. It's whatever works for each person. I've heard guys getting outstanding tone using more bass than I ever could. If I were to use the kind of bass, mids, treble, presence, or gain that other people use, I'd sound like shit. It's hard enough to get a good recorded tone. About the only thing I've become good at is cutting through in a live mix at various volume levels.

I think technique has a lot to do with it too. It's the way you mute, whether you pick further or closer to the bridge, whether you use a more angle or flatter pick attack, how hard you hit your strings, etc. Gearwise it has something to do with pickups, but mostly the amp and speakers. The only thing I care about is not having an absence of low end. I hate the kind of sound that doesn't have any low end.

It's the same with scooped mids. I can't get nearly the kind of tone some dudes get scooping mids. I don't even care anymore. I just want to play, and hopefully one day when I'm comfortable in music theory, I'll lay down some serious tracks.
 
I've had countless local guys ask me to help me dial in their sound. When I do, most are a little shocked that there isn't as much gain, there's a lot more mids and a lot less low end than what they perceived when watching the band live. The thing that I find ...especially when recording... is that when running a lot of low end, you end up doing things differently with the mids and highs to compensate for that low end woof....once you eliminate that with a high pass, all of sudden what sounded full-bodied and warm on its own often sounds pretty harsh and unpleasant. I guess for modern metal stuff having the lows carried by the guitar and having the bass sit more in the midrange is a unique approach.
 
Having the bass guitar above the guitar is not that unusual or new. Bands like TOOL have been doing it over 25 years. YES and other bands were doing it in the 70's.
 
stephen sawall":12jwupdb said:
Having the bass guitar above the guitar is not that unusual or new. Bands like TOOL have been doing it over 25 years. YES and other bands were doing it in the 70's.
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Yeah, I guess that Rickenbacker thing did that with Yes....Never really listened to enough Tool to determine that.
 
It's very common to low pass guitars but keep in mind a 6 string tuned to A=440 has a low E at 82hz. So you really dont want to filter out anything higher then 80hz...
 
Good points all around. For me, it's just balancing it out. The tone I play with just the guitar, I will high pass the guitar if I'm mixing with bass/band. I play 7 strings mostly, but tune to B standard. I like the tight low 7 string B sound, but never been crazy about the 7 string guitar being lower than that. Hate mud, hate boomy sounds. I also only use a size 57 for the low B, with a 43 for the low E. Gives that low mid growl without the boominess.
 
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