idnotbe":276o6kr4 said:How much different are they?
Anyone can elevorate the comparison??
I am asking, because...
I have a latest version of BE-100.
I wonder i need to add JJ in my collection for the BE channel of JJ.
CrazyNutz":2lgey3o6 said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
CrazyNutz":2wfjha25 said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
SavageRiffer":p7zc58i4 said:CrazyNutz":p7zc58i4 said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
Good to know! You have a schematic for that mod?
scottosan":np95p0uk said:CrazyNutz":np95p0uk said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps
CrazyNutz":1ybzeza7 said:Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.
Send your amp to Dave to mod? Would help the resale as opposed to a local guy doing it.idnotbe":3113e75t said:CrazyNutz":3113e75t said:Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.
maybe a dumb question.
i always felt there is no amp that perfectly fits my taste.
if i can change just a little bit, then i can probably go there.
but the challenges are...
- if i modify my stock BE-100, then i should drop the resale value of the amp significant. and no guarantee that it will turn into the amp i've dreamed.
- if i build an amp from the scratch, it needs enormous effort to learn. i have to do more important things in my life than amp building. and considering my man hour, it is not cost effective.
are there some solution?
for ex, a reliable custom builder, etc.
I agree with this^^^^JerEvil":32odfxgt said:Send your amp to Dave to mod? Would help the resale as opposed to a local guy doing it.idnotbe":32odfxgt said:CrazyNutz":32odfxgt said:Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.
maybe a dumb question.
i always felt there is no amp that perfectly fits my taste.
if i can change just a little bit, then i can probably go there.
but the challenges are...
- if i modify my stock BE-100, then i should drop the resale value of the amp significant. and no guarantee that it will turn into the amp i've dreamed.
- if i build an amp from the scratch, it needs enormous effort to learn. i have to do more important things in my life than amp building. and considering my man hour, it is not cost effective.
are there some solution?
for ex, a reliable custom builder, etc.
idnotbe":3j84i6hy said:CrazyNutz":3j84i6hy said:Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.
maybe a dumb question.
i always felt there is no amp that perfectly fits my taste.
if i can change just a little bit, then i can probably go there.
but the challenges are...
- if i modify my stock BE-100, then i should drop the resale value of the amp significant. and no guarantee that it will turn into the amp i've dreamed.
- if i build an amp from the scratch, it needs enormous effort to learn. i have to do more important things in my life than amp building. and considering my man hour, it is not cost effective.
are there some solution?
for ex, a reliable custom builder, etc.
scottosan":2tktzs0q said:CrazyNutz":2tktzs0q said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps
I agreetechnomancer":33i23idt said:scottosan":33i23idt said:CrazyNutz":33i23idt said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps
What I find really interesting about it having owned a BE and a JJ at the same time is the relatively substantial differences in tone minor component substitutions make in the amps.
scottosan":3g3n9acm said:I agreetechnomancer":3g3n9acm said:scottosan":3g3n9acm said:CrazyNutz":3g3n9acm said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps
What I find really interesting about it having owned a BE and a JJ at the same time is the relatively substantial differences in tone minor component substitutions make in the amps.
technomancer":1x7lj5w9 said:scottosan":1x7lj5w9 said:I agreetechnomancer":1x7lj5w9 said:scottosan":1x7lj5w9 said:CrazyNutz":1x7lj5w9 said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps
What I find really interesting about it having owned a BE and a JJ at the same time is the relatively substantial differences in tone minor component substitutions make in the amps.
So thinking about this a bit you could easily put the voltage divider and resonance cap on a switch, the pre-filter caps and choke obviously not so much. Heck the C45 switch is already swapping around the voltage divider on that gain stage on the stock BE100. Wonder how close it would be tonally.
Might have to find out
CrazyNutz":2ddd02mk said:technomancer":2ddd02mk said:scottosan":2ddd02mk said:I agreetechnomancer":2ddd02mk said:scottosan":2ddd02mk said:CrazyNutz":2ddd02mk said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps
What I find really interesting about it having owned a BE and a JJ at the same time is the relatively substantial differences in tone minor component substitutions make in the amps.
So thinking about this a bit you could easily put the voltage divider and resonance cap on a switch, the pre-filter caps and choke obviously not so much. Heck the C45 switch is already swapping around the voltage divider on that gain stage on the stock BE100. Wonder how close it would be tonally.
Might have to find out
Yes indeed you can. The filter caps are so close they only make a small difference. As for the choke, I think the 3H sounds better on a BE anyhow.
One other difference is the voice switch. The BE switches between a 470uf cathode bypass on the first half of the cathode follower stage, and a 500pf on the input of the tone stack. The JJ switches between the same 470uf cathode bypass on the first half of the cathode follower stage, but instead of the 500pf (this is totally removed), it engages the sat circuit.
CrazyNutz":1n9j21pw said:scottosan":1n9j21pw said:CrazyNutz":1n9j21pw said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps
Genius level marketing really. Dave is selling 80-90% of the same amp over and over to the same customers
Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.
Jon BCN":35gglj56 said:CrazyNutz":35gglj56 said:scottosan":35gglj56 said:CrazyNutz":35gglj56 said:There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.
You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.
EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf
I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps
Genius level marketing really. Dave is selling 80-90% of the same amp over and over to the same customers
Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.
Is it really that way? How is it that for example the Butterslax head needed a bigger headshell?
I have a BE100 and I would love to have a switch to change the overall gain structure to something like the Butterslax 2/3 channels.
That would be the perfect amp.