Considering: JP2C, Butterslax, Shiva 20th. Thoughts?

I'm looking to add a another amp that handles the more modern high gain side of things, but is versatile enough to more classic/lower gain tones as a secondary factor. I'm deep in the honeymoon with a Wildwood Smallbox, which handles old school up to 80s M tones in spades. It's absolutely fantastic. The 3rd channel actually does great high gain tones, too, but I want something that is a little more modern.

Can't speak for the others you mentioned, but the 20th anny Shiva would do what'chya want. I used it for more modern metal tones and its a mean little bastard with a really unique Low mid snarl. Pretty darn good low gain abilities as well.

MetalHeadMike":2beu1ctp said:

Can't speak for the others you mentioned, but the 20th anny Shiva would do what'chya want. I used it for more modern metal tones and its a mean little bastard with a really unique Low mid snarl. Pretty darn good low gain abilities as well.

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Thanks

I think this is the frontrunner. I've wanted one for a LONG time and always end up going in another direction.

I can’t claim any experience with the amps you mentioned except for a few minutes on a used boggy 20th in my local shop which I thought was pretty damn cool and the clean channel was unreal.

May I also suggest checking out KSR? Maybe an Orthos or a Juno?

I took a chance a few months ago and dipped my toe into the Kyle Rhodes rabbit hole with my
Ares and I’m glad I did. Very distinct high gain voice in these and very thick, clear and tight.

What sticks out to me most are the very responsive tone controls (even minute adjustments change the tone, unlike many other amps where u have to be extreme to hear noticeable shifts).

The master volumes are very linear too. It doesn’t go from OFF to noise disturbance complaint just by turning it to 2. Add to that some of the best build quality I’ve seen in an amp in my 20+ years of playing and owning gear.

If I had a Smallbox and was looking for more modern I would probably go JP2C. There is a pretty big price jump from the JP2C/Shiva 20th to the Butterslax. I picked up a Shiva 20th from GC.online Used for $1525 but they often ask $2k or more. It sounded good but I ended up returning it, just wasn't quite what I like and the build seemed cheaper than I expected. I know I like Mesa Mark tone and Mesa quality. The Butterslax seems like it might overlap the Smallbox in some areas...and it's expensive. The JP2C also just seems like 'more amp for your money' even if they were all the same price.

SpiderWars":6q3i228j said:

If I had a Smallbox and was looking for more modern I would probably go JP2C. There is a pretty big price jump from the JP2C/Shiva 20th to the Butterslax. I picked up a Shiva 20th from GC.online Used for $1525 but they often ask $2k or more. It sounded good but I ended up returning it, just wasn't quite what I like and the build seemed cheaper than I expected. I know I like Mesa Mark tone and Mesa quality. The Butterslax seems like it might overlap the Smallbox in some areas...and it's expensive. The JP2C also just seems like 'more amp for your money' even if they were all the same price.

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Yeah I'd go JP of the three as well but will also mirror the KSR recommendation.

I agree with the JP as well. It is the most contrasting amp with the Friedman of the 3 you mention. Definitely the most modern toned.

Racerxrated":2285zqnv said:

I agree with the JP as well. It is the most contrasting amp with the Friedman of the 3 you mention. Definitely the most modern toned.

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I can see this argument, but Mesa gain is unique. Lots of people think they will like it, and then they get the amp and don't connect because they were looking for a Marshall-based high gain.

I have played a JP2C, I've owned a bunch of other Mesas (including a Mark V), several Friedman modded amps, and a Shiva 20th. The Shiva is your best bet, imo, because, at its heart, it is a classic rock toned amp, but it can get some aggressive modern high gain tones, too. It's just about the perfect all around amp, imo.

It's also a very well loved amp, so if you decide to sell it someday, you'll be able to move it. The market for those other amps is considerably smaller.

JP gets my vote. I've owned the 20th and still own the ButterSlax and JP but i feel the JP can cover the most ground.

Yeah, JP. I've owned the Shiva 20th, great amp but if you really want to cover ground go with a real 3 channel amp. I keep saying it but I had a 20th Shiva and a Mesa Electra Dyne once on the same cabinet and I was able to get them to sound almost identical, but the Electra Dyne was boosted with a BB Preamp. The Shiva had more gain but the Electra Dyne had what seemed like twice the bottom end.....unless you cranked up the excursion knob on the the back of the Shiva. But the versatility of the Electra Dyne isn't there since it shares EQ for all 3 modes which is lame and the Shiva has a great clean.

BUT, have you considered a Kemper powered rack? Talk about covering ground!

squank":2iq03vu6 said:

Racerxrated":2iq03vu6 said:

I agree with the JP as well. It is the most contrasting amp with the Friedman of the 3 you mention. Definitely the most modern toned.

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I can see this argument, but Mesa gain is unique. Lots of people think they will like it, and then they get the amp and don't connect because they were looking for a Marshall-based high gain.

I have played a JP2C, I've owned a bunch of other Mesas (including a Mark V), several Friedman modded amps, and a Shiva 20th. The Shiva is your best bet, imo, because, at its heart, it is a classic rock toned amp, but it can get some aggressive modern high gain tones, too. It's just about the perfect all around amp, imo.

It's also a very well loved amp, so if you decide to sell it someday, you'll be able to move it. The market for those other amps is considerably smaller.

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I think a big reason people don't jive with Mark series amps because they dial them in like a Marshall "numbers-wise". I know that was the problem I had until a few buds sent me some settings to try. Now a Mark V or JP is SUPER high on my list.

JP2C is a killer amp, It's got great tones and is very versatile, I'm in a similar situation and own an XTC from 2001, love it, but I want another tone.

Played a 20th Shiva and was at first worried because my friend has an original Shiva, which I like, but isn't capable of the tones I'm looking for. Let me tell you, the 20th is an insane monster compared to the original! Make sure if you get it, you get the 90watt model with KT88's, that is the stock version, they do make a 60 watt version with 6L6's.

Just FYI

JerEvil":sfmklrwz said:

squank":sfmklrwz said:

Racerxrated":sfmklrwz said:

I agree with the JP as well. It is the most contrasting amp with the Friedman of the 3 you mention. Definitely the most modern toned.

Click to expand...

I can see this argument, but Mesa gain is unique. Lots of people think they will like it, and then they get the amp and don't connect because they were looking for a Marshall-based high gain.

I have played a JP2C, I've owned a bunch of other Mesas (including a Mark V), several Friedman modded amps, and a Shiva 20th. The Shiva is your best bet, imo, because, at its heart, it is a classic rock toned amp, but it can get some aggressive modern high gain tones, too. It's just about the perfect all around amp, imo.

It's also a very well loved amp, so if you decide to sell it someday, you'll be able to move it. The market for those other amps is considerably smaller.

Click to expand...

I think a big reason people don't jive with Mark series amps because they dial them in like a Marshall "numbers-wise". I know that was the problem I had until a few buds sent me some settings to try. Now a Mark V or JP is SUPER high on my list.

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There's a lot of truth to this. I was on my THIRD Mark V (head, then combo, then head again) before I really learned how to dial it in from a total Mesa amp fan. I got some amazing tones from it, including some great high gain tones.

To their credit, Mesa's gain is original and not Marshally. But that is also its Achilles heel, at least for people who grow up musically hearing hot-rodded Marshall high gain. It's not the same, and it leaves many people wishing they had gone for a more typical Marshall-style amp, which the Shiva definitely is.

I've got nothing bad to say about Mesa amps (except for maybe how heavy they are!). But they do have their own sound.

JP2C gets my vote.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of going with the JP2C. For whatever reason, the idea of getting one is more exciting than the Shiva to me.

I’m a big fan of the Mark 25 and have owned 2 in the past.

It would certainly be a completely different sound from what I’m getting with my other amps. Everything I have is Marshally- Smallbox, DSL40CR, Runt.

That said- I’m getting up with some local guys on Sunday for a Mini amp fest and a 20th Shiva will be there. Will give the 20th a shot before I spend any cash.

Yeah if everything you have is Marshally then the slax will fall into that for sure. I love my slax, its pretty much cured my gassing for "that sound" without a boost or od in front. As for me wanting other modern tones, I went with a 5150 III 50w and am still waiting for that PRS MT15 to come thru my door any day now. I like variety but at the end of the day its slax love for me. Also if money/space/mywife was not an issue, I'd have a KSR in a heartbeat.

The JP2C imo is amazing but I would say it depends on what you are using it for. TL;DR - If you are in a band and this will be your main amp I would go for the JP2C hands down. If this is for the bedroom I would probably have more fun with the Bogner. Can't speak on the Friedman but if I were to get one it would be a JJ over the Slax. Preferences.

I love Bogner amps. I have a Rev 2 that has stayed over any amp including the JP2C but that is because the high gain tone that amp has is devastating to me. I have only heard the Shiva in a room but yes that is amazing too. Definitely cannot go wrong there.

My input will be based on the JP2C - It was by far the best amp for a band mix that i have played. It is extremely well thought out IMO. Very very "smart" amp if you will. It sits in a band mix PERFECTLY, I can't stress that enough. It can get brutal AF with the high gain, you don't really need a boost but it can sound better with a boost and less gain vs the boost switch IMO.

But the best part for me was the band mix thing. It just sits perfectly. It lets the bass do its job, it makes the guitar and bass compliment each other and idk man is just a killer amp. It cuts through just right. Exactly where it needs to be in the mix. The cleans are amazing although the taper on the reverb is not great - goes from zero - 1000 quickly.

I will say I was unimpressed with the mid gain crunch. IMO it will not even come close to a Bray or a Plexi for that classic rock tone but others may disagree. Could always get that Keeley classic rock pedal and call it a day.

The other bad thing to me and others will disagree is that it does not have the devastating low end that my Rev 2 has. If you have a powered SUB that will solve that problem but that is not really needed, just a preference that I have.

I had the JP2C for a short period a month or so ago. LOVED it in the shop through their 4x12... so much so that I bought it on the spot... but unfortunately at home through my cabs, or through the cabs at the rehearsal cab I go to, it just didn't work and I wasn't willing to drop another bunch of coin (or dedicate the space) on a Mesa 4x12. Killer cleans and both crunch channels killed it, plus the boost and reverb were also great. I'd not hesitate getting one again if I had the right speakers for it. That said, the other two options you're considering are honestly more alluring to me. Tough choice... I'd probably do the 20th Shiva.

Played a 20th yesterday- loved it. A little more modern and aggressive than the smallbox and has that fantastic clean channel- exactly what I'm looking for to round out the collection. Still intrigued by the JP2C. I think I may need to get both here. Might let the Runt go and do both. Life's short yada yada right?

The Shiva 20th is a beast. It can cover a lot of ground, From Classic Rock to High Gain Metal. And the best part is, that it has this British JCM800 thing going on, with lots of overtones and sits perfect in the band mix.