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 Post subject: DAR Amps Forza Quattro!
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 1:17pm 
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I saw a glimpse of this amp a while ago but after seeing the NAMM pics this thing just blows my mind, I have not even heard this thing yet but I have to get one hahaha, I think it would go nicely with my Meathead!

Anyone have any more pics of this beast? I don't even care how it sounds! it's covered in carbon fiber looking tolex and has crazy lights, shit thats enough for me!


post whatever you have on this amp!

thanks!

C


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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 2:28pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6XtSEJN5SI

really stunning looks and the best part is they sound awesome!
they sound like the tone is power amp derived and pure versus preamp driven. very bold and forward sounding but glassy in a non ear fatiguing way

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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 2:30pm 
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We carry DAR at the shop. Great amps. Great builder as well. :rock:

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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 2:34pm 
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What do these cost?

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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 3:08pm 
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mentoneman-

thanks for the link! I believe the amp in that video is the tuzzia! I wanna hear the quattro! I bet it's similar but apparently has more! more more! haha

C

mentoneman wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6XtSEJN5SI

really stunning looks and the best part is they sound awesome!
they sound like the tone is power amp derived and pure versus preamp driven. very bold and forward sounding but glassy in a non ear fatiguing way


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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 4:28pm 
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I played one of these over at Tone Merchants a couple months ago, and holy crap was this thing amazing. Not a bedroom amp at all but when you open this thing up it really explodes. The thing that I was most impressed with was the feel of the amp. The touch and responsiveness was fast articulate and booming! It is a very fast action amp that reminds me of the Marshall 2203 feel and speed, but WAY better! I think is costs $2300 if I remember and a pretty good deal, and it is really really fun to play. I think that when more people get their hands on one this company is going to explode on the forums.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 19, 2010 10:56am 
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I am itching to try this Forza Quattro out, Paul from Dar amps lives not too far from me so hopefully we can finally nail a time down, the tuzzia sounds good, but I'm hoping the Forza is just right!

not that I'll need it hahaha

C


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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 19, 2010 3:45pm 
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Hey Guys,

Thanks for checking out Forza and Tuzzia and making NAMM a HUGE success for DAR Amps!
We've all just made it back home and are really pleased to see such a warm welcome to our new family member... FORZA.

I'm sure Paul will keep you guys updated with all things and can be reached at paul@daramps.com

We believe FORZA is a machine built beyond any level of tone/technology currently avalable in any tube amp. This machine is loosely based on our TUZZIA production amp but takes all aspects to the next level.

I dont want to get long winded here on specs, functions, etc... but suffice to say it has it all. Our MIDI system is state of the art and developed by our friend Mario from (former) Axess Electronics. The amp also features a built in intelligent DMX512 lighting controller and power supply capable of providing illumination power/control/sequencing for your entire stage lighting system. We did not fully demonstrate the features at NAMM, but will in forthcoming demo's and vid's. The amp also features every concieveable interface for professional touring/studio/recording environments including instrument loop (aka reamp), advanced effects loops control, studio outs, speaker sims, etc..... and all analog and of audiophile quality as well... You will never lose your tone in any loop or ever introduce any hum,hiss,etc...

This amp is a monster in every way.

-True triode output stage delivering 100 watts of real Class A Triode output.
If you continue to push the amp, it will rebias the tubes and deliver 170 watts of traditional Class AB power in Clean/Crunch runch mode
-The output stage powerplant incorporates a signal and power adaptive bias/tuning/load matching controller that always keeps the powerplant running at optimised performance.... like the fuel injection/variable valve timing system in your car.
-Under extreme metal environments, the powerplant can deliver output power equivilent to a 380+ watt tube amp.

Our amps love to be pushed hard...in fact the harder you drive them, the cooler the output tubes run. You need not be afraid of running these machines at wide open... they prefer it.

Tone wise, this machine is stellar in every way. It incorporates all the tone attributes of it's little brother, but takes them to the next level. Paul will discuss this in more detail, but suffice to say we are very pleased. I myself was even blow away and I'm the hardest one to please.

Forza incorporates state of the art cutting edge physics/engineerng/designs/materials to deliver it's level of performance. Thousands of hours of advanced design/engineering have been dedicated to the machines we offer. It is simply not just a different tube in a traditional design.

Again, if you have any questions, please contact paul@daramps.com

Initial orders are coming in for Forza and we will begin shipping soon.
Tuzzia's are in full production and avalable right away.
We place great effort on keeping costs under control and building quality American made Silicon Valley gear.

Best,
Mike G


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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 22, 2010 10:34am 
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Mike

Thanks for the info, I've been in touch with Paul and live not too far away from him, so we will chat more about this amp! Looking forward to trying it out!


C


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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 22, 2010 11:16am 
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These amps really have my attention as well. Very interesting.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 22, 2010 11:47am 
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i keep telling people that DAR is gonna be the next big thing. the amps are crushing :rock:

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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 05, 2010 5:00am 
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Hey guys


Thanks for all the positive comments and glad to join the board.

Lots new to report from DAR land...

Guitars Rebellion is our main distributor for all of Europe and Japan. They are a great group of guys and are based in Paris. They are in the process of finishing a killer showcase facility complete with sound proof rooms and a huge stock of guitars and accessories. Please contact Vincent at Guitars Rebellion or myself with any questions regarding Europe or Japan.

http://www.guitarsrebellion.com/index.html

More announcements regarding US, Canadian, and Latin American dealers will be posted soon.

Also wanted to let you know we will soon be launching 2 killer new bass heads and are almost finished with a prototype for a super advanced distortion pedal. These new products will continue our philosophy of bringing something really different to the market.....aesthetically, technically and sonically.

Some serious new artists will also soon join our team.

We'll be updating our site with new photos, manuals by next week, and with new pro videos in about 3 weeks.

Thanks and please let me know if there are any questions at all...


Paul


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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 05, 2010 8:51am 
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Interesting with the different power tubes but I don't understand the market you're trying for. I see alot of the detuned 7 string demos of the Tuzzia but they sound very muddy and undefined and IMO, class A design is not ideal for 'djent' metal tones with a rounder attack and less bass response than class A/B. The mids are very pleasing and it has plenty of gain but it seemingly lacks the punch and articulation for metal in those vids. Certainly would like to try the 100 watt class A model at cranked volumes to see what it can do, though. I'm thinking it must be a little bit loud....


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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 22, 2010 9:23am 
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Well diezelmonster u play one? How does it stand up to big dawgs

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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 22, 2010 9:41am 
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cujo wrote:
Well diezelmonster u play one? How does it stand up to big dawgs


Hey man,

Here's some videos I made, none of them are obviously mega cranked volume, but not super quiet either, probably double a loud T.V. volume or something to that effect. I have cranked the shit out of it in a studio and it's just monstrous, it has power for days and days. I had a Diezel before this amp and honestly I think this amp records better, because it's not as compressed and breaths more in the recordings, there is definitely more note separation. Diezel are awesome amps and some day I'm sure I'll own one again, but the DAR does everything I need/want in spades and then some, along with cleans that honestly competes with even the best fenders, plus it's got an incredible amount of versatility that you wont find on most amps, the bright and deep switches on the clean and crunch channel make a HUGE difference!







Let me know what questions I can answer for you.

Dallas

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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 22, 2010 9:44am 
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DAR, any super high headroom thick single channel clean amps in the works? ala 69 sunn 2000s? or you stickin with the crazy LED lit 3 channel high gain monsters?

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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 22, 2010 10:36am 
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Nitroholic,

Funny, most people are asking for more lights, more gain and more insanity :lol: :LOL:

Seriously though, my initial designs were all clean/blues/jazz amps. Forza incorporates much of these tone attributes in the clean crunch channel.

So, who knows?


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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 22, 2010 7:23pm 
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Are those Detroiters?? Sounds great!


Last edited by reverymike on Wed, Jun 23, 2010 9:28am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 8:45am 
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Dallas how is it compared to Engl SE. I was ordering an se yet this amp caught me.the se has a lot of versitility that's what is great.I also use Herbert,nitro,n a few other amps.and where are Dar made? Tnx cj

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 1:55pm 
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reverymike wrote:
Are those Detroiters?? Sounds great!


Hey man they are actually Awfayus! Great sounding pickups man!

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 1:58pm 
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Dallas can u put up pics of front n back panel.wanna see hookups

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 2:02pm 
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cujo wrote:
Dallas how is it compared to Engl SE. I was ordering an se yet this amp caught me.the se has a lot of versitility that's what is great.I also use Herbert,nitro,n a few other amps.and where are Dar made? Tnx cj


Hey Cujo,

Sorry for the delayed reply, I was watching for your post but this thread kind of got buried yesterday and I didn't catch it today either!

I had a Diezel before this amp, the Einstein 100, and the powerball was my friends that I was holding on to for a while, not that it's not a good amp, it's just no where near in my opinion the quality of the DAR.

I can say the DAR is much more organic sounding, more dynamic, less compressed feeling and meaner. The ENGL has a lot of gain sure, but it's just kind of like overkill fizzyness, I got some decent tones out of it, but I never felt like the amp really breathed if that makes sense? I feel the DAR is unique in that respect, very much like a JCM800 really breaths and opens up, the DAR is similar but obviously with a lot more gain than an 800 and it's own tone going for sure. The Forza has a unique sound to it, but is not like way out of the ball park from other amps, however; it is absolutely different enough to be worth owning! The power tubes that are in these amps really just add something special and sweet to the sound that other amps don't have, it's an entirely different character.

All DAR amps are currently made in the USA, Mike makes them all in Palo Alto Cali, with nothing but absolutely top notch parts, these things are absolutely built like a tank man.

What other questions do you have about these things man? I'll be more than glad to answer any I can, though it's hard to compare it to an ENGL SE, one thing I can say in regards to the powerball I had is that the dar was built with what I felt was much better construction it's a lot heavier and all the parts are made from extremely high quality materials, even the knobs are I believe machined aluminum.

Dallas :rock:

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 2:12pm 
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cujo wrote:
Dallas can u put up pics of front n back panel.wanna see hookups


Hey Cujo,

I'm actually not home right now but I can try and shoot some up here later.

The back has plenty of options, honestly anything you could ever really want... let me see if I can recall all of them off the top of my head... it's got a 16 ohm tap 2x 8ohm taps and a 4 ohm tap, then it's got a light controller for hooking the amp up to a house lighting system, a midi in and out, it's got an XLR out for studio recording, it's also got an XLR direct instrument in, it's got an effects loop that can be used in serial or parallel each selectable by channel, so you can run each channel which ever way you want or completely by pass it. It's also got a bright/deep/normal switch for the clean and crunch channels so you can set those to suit your needs as well, it's also got a direct TRS out for headphones so you can use that, a switch to "idle" the power section for direct out recording if your going to use IR's. It's also got an Aux in and Aux out, knobs for mixing the loop volumes and that kind of stuff. It's also got a mono footswitch, that lets you switch between two of the channels which you can set one on the front of the amp and one on the back of the amp, as well as a second button on it for bypassing the effects loop entirely if you don't want it on when you swap channels, obviously this is only needed if you DONT want to use midi. It's also got options to use a built in speaker sim in the amp, as well as the option to take a direct out with pre amp, power amp both through speaker sim and a few other options I'm sure I'm forgetting lol...

I'll see what else I can think of...

What else can I do for you man?

Dallas

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 2:18pm 
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Hey Man,

@ 4:49 in



You can see the back panel, :) trying to snag you up some pics soon though!

Dallas

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 2:28pm 
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Heres the rear :)


Attachments:
FORZA REAR 3.JPG
FORZA REAR 3.JPG [ 1.72 MiB | Viewed 3487 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 2:29pm 
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And heres the front :)


Attachments:
FORZA.JPG
FORZA.JPG [ 1.57 MiB | Viewed 3487 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 2:43pm 
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Wow...its got everything u can need. I see it has two big fans.does it run that hot? Does it still use 12ax7 preamp tubes? Thnk 4 pics.

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 2:58pm 
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Thank u...

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 3:53pm 
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cujo wrote:
Wow...its got everything u can need. I see it has two big fans.does it run that hot? Does it still use 12ax7 preamp tubes? Thnk 4 pics.


Hey Cujo,

The first 3 pre amp tubes (left to right) on the forza use 12au7's and the 4th pre amp tube is a 12ax7, it does get very hot, but the fans are incredibly quite and run very low, it's just basically to keep air moving through the system not so much as a mega active cooler I believe, but Mike will have to chime in on that one :)

Dallas

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 6:44pm 
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where do you buy those 6c33 tubes? i was looking everywhere says out of stock???

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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 8:02pm 
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cujo wrote:
where do you buy those 6c33 tubes? i was looking everywhere says out of stock???


Hey man,

You can contact Mike at DAR amps he always keeps plenty in stock on hand for easy replacement, and his direct supplier has about 3000 on hand at the moment as well, he gets them straight from Russia. So no worries if other suppliers don't have them Mike will take care of you! :thumbsup:

Also, tubestore has them but they are overpriced compared to other places.

I can't speak to the longevity of these yet, but Mike told me he had(has) an amp on for 6 months straight and they are still kicking, and with Class A amps the power is ALWAYS going through them so they are getting put through a good test. Another thing to keep in mind, these tubes were actually engineered for delivering Russian Nuclear Warheads, they were designed to hold up at 7g's and are still currently used in Mig Fighters, these aren't your average tube... with that said, it's still a tube... they are the most unreliable part of any guitar amp so take it for what you will, but when you see these things as compared to any other tube you'll be like holy shit man..

They are I kid you not about the size of a hand grenade if not bigger, the metal inside is really solid and sturdy it's not that bent crap you see in a lot of other tubes, it's big thick ass plates, and the glass is VERY VERY thick. And these are one of the few tubes that are strong enough the design allowed them to operate horizontally like they are, which also helps to reduce noise of the amp as well by having them mounted in a different direction than the pre-amp tubes.

Dallas :rock:

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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 24, 2010 5:19pm 
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I Ordered One... So now I wait.. Dallas TNX... if you get a moment put up a clip with some disturbed type riffs, or like that clip I sent ya last night ... Like to Torture myself more during the wait!LOL

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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 24, 2010 5:19pm 
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Oh Yeah I forGot :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 24, 2010 10:36pm 
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Dallas Marlow wrote:
Hey Man,

@ 4:49 in



You can see the back panel, :) trying to snag you up some pics soon though!

Dallas

Good angle for the camera mic on the Dar clips here. Sounded great right up my alley! :rock:


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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 9:32am 
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mikegiovannotto wrote:
Nitroholic,

Funny, most people are asking for more lights, more gain and more insanity :lol: :LOL:

Seriously though, my initial designs were all clean/blues/jazz amps. Forza incorporates much of these tone attributes in the clean crunch channel.

So, who knows?


im a total doom guy and a huge minority on this site but with a shortage of amps in the market for huge fuzz users there is a complete market out there. yeah high gain 3 channel monsters are totaly boss but theres a relitivly large market for super high headroom over power'd tube amps. if you want the thickest nastyest fuzz you get an electric but starting at 2.5K theyre outta reach of 99% of us doom guys. so you settle for pedals and high headroom amps. however with vintage hiwatt prices being more then electrics, and vintage sunns getting there slowly were reduced to trying to find ampeg V4s that everyone knows are not the most reliable amps out there. all most of us want is a 4 knobbed amp thats got a thick, dark clean and super high headroom ala kt-88s to run our disgustingly huge fuzzes into. :D ill take mine with a bass tuned pre amp, 200 watts via kt-88s, green tolex and green LED backlighting :lol: :LOL: extra points if it can "look vintage" and still pull off the cheeb green LEDs :D :lol: :LOL: ramble to myself over :scared:

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 9:45am 
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cujo wrote:
I Ordered One... So now I wait.. Dallas TNX... if you get a moment put up a clip with some disturbed type riffs, or like that clip I sent ya last night ... Like to Torture myself more during the wait!LOL


Cujo, awesome man, trust me I know how it was waiting to get mine I've got serial #001 haha... I was like losing it waiting for it to get done, and then the day FedEx was supposed to deliver it, they claimed they knocked on my door which they never did, and they dropped it off at the front office of my building, it was safe and cool and everything... I was just like son of a... they didn't knock on my door! The guy just didn't want to cart the big ass box around haha.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 9:49am 
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NITROHOLIC wrote:
mikegiovannotto wrote:
Nitroholic,

Funny, most people are asking for more lights, more gain and more insanity :lol: :LOL:

Seriously though, my initial designs were all clean/blues/jazz amps. Forza incorporates much of these tone attributes in the clean crunch channel.

So, who knows?


im a total doom guy and a huge minority on this site but with a shortage of amps in the market for huge fuzz users there is a complete market out there. yeah high gain 3 channel monsters are totaly boss but theres a relitivly large market for super high headroom over power'd tube amps. if you want the thickest nastyest fuzz you get an electric but starting at 2.5K theyre outta reach of 99% of us doom guys. so you settle for pedals and high headroom amps. however with vintage hiwatt prices being more then electrics, and vintage sunns getting there slowly were reduced to trying to find ampeg V4s that everyone knows are not the most reliable amps out there. all most of us want is a 4 knobbed amp thats got a thick, dark clean and super high headroom ala kt-88s to run our disgustingly huge fuzzes into. :D ill take mine with a bass tuned pre amp, 200 watts via kt-88s, green tolex and green LED backlighting :lol: :LOL: extra points if it can "look vintage" and still pull off the cheeb green LEDs :D :lol: :LOL: ramble to myself over :scared:


Honestly man if you haven't tried the clean channel yet on the Forza, it's really incredible and has headroom for days... it's 100 watts class A so it's really pretty and lush as well. I mean honestly it's got power and balls for days, theres a vid on youtube you can hear where a guy is running an 8 string through it, it actually sounds like a bass. If you get a chance def. try out the clean channel with a Fuzz pedal I don't think you'll be disappointed at all. This amp really likes pedals!

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 7:53pm 
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Dallas Marlow wrote:
NITROHOLIC wrote:
mikegiovannotto wrote:
Nitroholic,

Funny, most people are asking for more lights, more gain and more insanity :lol: :LOL:

Seriously though, my initial designs were all clean/blues/jazz amps. Forza incorporates much of these tone attributes in the clean crunch channel.

So, who knows?


my long ass post


Honestly man if you haven't tried the clean channel yet on the Forza, it's really incredible and has headroom for days... it's 100 watts class A so it's really pretty and lush as well. I mean honestly it's got power and balls for days, theres a vid on youtube you can hear where a guy is running an 8 string through it, it actually sounds like a bass. If you get a chance def. try out the clean channel with a Fuzz pedal I don't think you'll be disappointed at all. This amp really likes pedals!


hmm, im very interested in it but the problem with me is i dont like having "more" then i need. it makes me feel like i overpayed for features ill never use. kinda like ordering a car with an upgraded stereo when youre deaf. feels strange to me. im still rocking a two channel high gain modern amp and have only gone to the gain channel to remind me how shitty it sounds to me compared to my pedals :lol: :LOL: also how much is that pig? if its as much as an electric thats a really hard sell for me or any doom guy for that matter. we would almost all go for the electric. however a 4 knobber, clean high headroom'd, over power'd, too damn thick, and dark amp with a decent build at or around the 1500$ range? sign me up. :rock:

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 8:33pm 
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NITROHOLIC wrote:
Dallas Marlow wrote:
NITROHOLIC wrote:
mikegiovannotto wrote:
Nitroholic,

Funny, most people are asking for more lights, more gain and more insanity :lol: :LOL:

Seriously though, my initial designs were all clean/blues/jazz amps. Forza incorporates much of these tone attributes in the clean crunch channel.

So, who knows?


my long ass post


Honestly man if you haven't tried the clean channel yet on the Forza, it's really incredible and has headroom for days... it's 100 watts class A so it's really pretty and lush as well. I mean honestly it's got power and balls for days, theres a vid on youtube you can hear where a guy is running an 8 string through it, it actually sounds like a bass. If you get a chance def. try out the clean channel with a Fuzz pedal I don't think you'll be disappointed at all. This amp really likes pedals!


hmm, im very interested in it but the problem with me is i dont like having "more" then i need. it makes me feel like i overpayed for features ill never use. kinda like ordering a car with an upgraded stereo when youre deaf. feels strange to me. im still rocking a two channel high gain modern amp and have only gone to the gain channel to remind me how shitty it sounds to me compared to my pedals :lol: :LOL: also how much is that pig? if its as much as an electric thats a really hard sell for me or any doom guy for that matter. we would almost all go for the electric. however a 4 knobber, clean high headroom'd, over power'd, too damn thick, and dark amp with a decent build at or around the 1500$ range? sign me up. :rock:


I'd bet money that if you got this amp you would use EVERY channel the amp has to offer, it gets heavy as hell man. I'm not going to say I play sludge or doom, or even know a damn bit about them, but every channel on the amp is absolutely killer and usable. They are very tweakable as well, and the amp likes pedals all the way around. Your right though it is NOT cheap at all! I'm not sure of the current price but if you email DAR I'm sure you can find out! If you get a chance you should absolutely at least play one!

Maybe if DAR makes a bass amp then that would be up your alley because I bet that would sure as hell be over powered for guitar haha!

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 8:35pm 
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What is that guy talking about :confused:

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 9:39pm 
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NITROHOLIC wrote:
Dallas Marlow wrote:
NITROHOLIC wrote:
mikegiovannotto wrote:
Nitroholic,

Funny, most people are asking for more lights, more gain and more insanity :lol: :LOL:

Seriously though, my initial designs were all clean/blues/jazz amps. Forza incorporates much of these tone attributes in the clean crunch channel.

So, who knows?


my long ass post


Honestly man if you haven't tried the clean channel yet on the Forza, it's really incredible and has headroom for days... it's 100 watts class A so it's really pretty and lush as well. I mean honestly it's got power and balls for days, theres a vid on youtube you can hear where a guy is running an 8 string through it, it actually sounds like a bass. If you get a chance def. try out the clean channel with a Fuzz pedal I don't think you'll be disappointed at all. This amp really likes pedals!


hmm, im very interested in it but the problem with me is i dont like having "more" then i need. it makes me feel like i overpayed for features ill never use. kinda like ordering a car with an upgraded stereo when youre deaf. feels strange to me. im still rocking a two channel high gain modern amp and have only gone to the gain channel to remind me how shitty it sounds to me compared to my pedals :lol: :LOL: also how much is that pig? if its as much as an electric thats a really hard sell for me or any doom guy for that matter. we would almost all go for the electric. however a 4 knobber, clean high headroom'd, over power'd, too damn thick, and dark amp with a decent build at or around the 1500$ range? sign me up. :rock:


Shop at Guitar Center they have a bunch of those amps :D

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 10:12pm 
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:checkthisout:

Yeah Nitroholic, this amp has alot of stuff on the backside for sure, but it is also as simple as can be if you want. The can amp operate from the front channel selector, mono footswitch for basic channel switching, or 2 button footswitch for added fx action.... all the way to full midi via multiple midi inputs jacks at multiple midi addresses (for studio and giggin ease) (offering voicing toggles, 3db boost, mute, fx toggle,and channel select and store function)

The truth of the matter is that once the backbone of the control system was developed, adding in more stuff was pretty much just the cost of the connectors and minor incremental labor.... so why not? Besides, this is our flagship amp and I just had to do it.

The funky lighting and DMX control system may be over the top, yeah, but I kinda like flashy shit I guess :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL:


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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 10:22pm 
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What does Dar stand for? Abbreviated for something?

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