Floating Trem question.

mniel8195

Active member
Hey guys i have noticed on my suhr modern that when i do a big bend the string goes out of tune as soon as i play it again. Once i dive the bar back down it goes back into tune. The guitar is set up properly and am using fresh strings that have been stretched, big bends nut sauce at the saddles, knife edges, and nut. The guitar does not go out of tune when using the whammy bar unless i go Slayer status on it which i don't do. I noticed when i block the trem with a bunch of picks the guitar does not do this so i feel like it rules out the nut. Is this just part of having a floating trem with non locking saddles?

I will not that my guitar bridge is perfectly parallel to the body. I am only using two springs though. Will using three springs and re floating help? The bar does move quite a bit when i bend.
 
It's still likely happening at the nut and imo/ime yes it's just part of the deal. You can minimize it and then manage it (frequent taps of trem to bring it back). Any big bend on the G-string (for example) and you'll already know you need to tap the trem before you play certain chords/intervals. During any rests, tap trem, etc.

How do you tune the guitar when you have the trem blocked with picks? If you normally tune by frequently pressing the trem (such that it comes back in tune after using trem) then it seems like you couldn't tune like that with it blocked with picks. That is, you could be tuning the guitar with the already-bent (and thus flat) strings. Seems like now if you were to use the trem it would come back sharp.
 
Are you saying that when you bend a note on a string the remaining strings are out of tune during the bend?
If so, that's just the nature of the system. Not sure there's anything you can do about the former.

If your saying that the strings go out of tune after a bend or dive bomb has been released then that sounds like you have an issue.
 
MetalHeadMike":30vc2v85 said:
Are you saying that when you bend a note on a string the remaining strings are out of tune during the bend?
If so, that's just the nature of the system. Not sure there's anything you can do about the former.

If your saying that the strings go out of tune after a bend or dive bomb has been released then that sounds like you have an issue.

The string goes out of tune after the bend. This has nothing to do with double stops or anything like that after i tap the bar it goes back into tune. I feel like this is the nature of a floating trem but but maybe something is wrong.

I tested putting a stuff in the trem so it would not move and the problem does not persist. This leave me to believe it is not the nut or the saddles.
 
If i don't use the bar and give all my strings a quick 1/2 step bend and tune the guitar this solves the issue but the bar is not being used. IF i use the bar it throws the strings out of tune but this time to get back to tuning i suppose i would have to bend the strings. The opposite problem. Can someone confirm that this is just what happens on a non floyd rose system. Its manageable i am just curious of the physics behind whats going on.
 
Sounds to me like something is wrong with either the bridge itself or the setup.

I don't have any of the issues your describing with my floyd loaded guitar. I can dive bomb/pull up to my hearts content, and every time I release the bar the guitar is in perfect tune.

Maybe someone else will chime in here and give you some info.
 
MetalHeadMike":2tcg33i3 said:
Sounds to me like something is wrong with either the bridge itself or the setup.

I don't have any of the issues your describing with my floyd loaded guitar. I can dive bomb/pull up to my hearts content, and every time I release the bar the guitar is in perfect tune.

Maybe someone else will chime in here and give you some info.


You are using a double locking tremelo I'm using the floating 510 trem with bone nut. Different animal.
 
It's the nature of it. When you press/tap the trem the string tension goes down and a tiny bit of string slips in the nut to balance the tension on each side of the nut. When the trem comes back to rest almost all the of string that slipped through the nut slips back the other way...but not quite all of it. So you keep tapping the trem as you tune...but now as soon as you bend a string you pull that little bit of string back through the nut and now the string is flat (until you tap the trem again). Hope that made sense.
 
I read about this years ago on the Suhr forum, and, at least back then, it was deemed to be part of the nature of the beast.

The "solution", which you've already discovered, was to tap the trem. I've not seen any update on this since then, so it's entirely-possible that someone's found a fix.
 
Thanks everyone I just wanted to understand the nature of the beast. I think the only way around this is using a floyd rose with locking nut. I would imagine using the old style floyd with no fine tuners and a standard nut would still not solve the issue. I'm fine with it I just wanted to understand it.
 
mniel8195":3aps8tbu said:
MetalHeadMike":3aps8tbu said:
Sounds to me like something is wrong with either the bridge itself or the setup.

I don't have any of the issues your describing with my floyd loaded guitar. I can dive bomb/pull up to my hearts content, and every time I release the bar the guitar is in perfect tune.

Maybe someone else will chime in here and give you some info.


You are using a double locking tremelo I'm using the floating 510 trem with bone nut. Different animal.[/quote

Yep. Didn't see that untill. now :aww:
 
You have to "seat" the strings. String it up, lube it, tune it and don't stretch the string. Then push down on each string right in front of the bridge and on each side of the nut. You stretch the string over the point of stress so when it slides in and out of that point it "seats" back to the original tuning piont. This helps a lot. There's some good YouTube vids to explain this if I'm not making sense. Good luck.
 
tripstan":2w3duadh said:
You have to "seat" the strings. String it up, lube it, tune it and don't stretch the string. Then push down on each string right in front of the bridge and on each side of the nut. You stretch the string over the point of stress so when it slides in and out of that point it "seats" back to the original tuning piont. This helps a lot. There's some good YouTube vids to explain this if I'm not making sense. Good luck.

I'm not sure i get why you would not stretch your strings?
 
mniel8195":d6t00s6f said:
tripstan":d6t00s6f said:
You have to "seat" the strings. String it up, lube it, tune it and don't stretch the string. Then push down on each string right in front of the bridge and on each side of the nut. You stretch the string over the point of stress so when it slides in and out of that point it "seats" back to the original tuning piont. This helps a lot. There's some good YouTube vids to explain this if I'm not making sense. Good luck.

I'm not sure i get why you would not stretch your strings?

I didn't either but it works. The theory is that you stretch them on the fulcrum points so when you slide out of those point and back in it's putting it back in tune. If you stretch before they won't seat and will still go out of tune when using the trem bar. I was skeptical but it works.
 
Not to start an argument and not to offend anyone playing this bridge, but why would you want to deal with these types of issues? Just curious. Seems like a lot of work that would detract from play time. I get it if you got a guitar with this bridge and had never played it going in blind, but outside that just seems odd.
 
MetalHeadMike":2y3ygov6 said:
Not to start an argument and not to offend anyone playing this bridge, but why would you want to deal with these types of issues? Just curious. Seems like a lot of work that would detract from play time. I get it if you got a guitar with this bridge and had never played it going in blind, but outside that just seems odd.

Good point. They invented the floyd rose for a reason. I guess guys like the look, feel, and sound of the vintage trem. Some people hate the floyd rose because of the locking nut and fine tuners. It just depends on what set of problems work for you. With the vintage tremelo you do have to change your play style a bit unless you don't want to use the trem. I am going to get a custom suhr modern and i will be ordering it with a Gotoh floyd rose. I like the idea that once it is set you never really have to mess with saddle height or intonation because it is locked. You can bend notes and they will stay in tune without having to dump the bar and reset it. Plus you never really have to worry about having a bone nut redone.
 
mniel8195":281q4w1v said:
MetalHeadMike":281q4w1v said:
Not to start an argument and not to offend anyone playing this bridge, but why would you want to deal with these types of issues? Just curious. Seems like a lot of work that would detract from play time. I get it if you got a guitar with this bridge and had never played it going in blind, but outside that just seems odd.

Good point. They invented the floyd rose for a reason. I guess guys like the look, feel, and sound of the vintage trem. Some people hate the floyd rose because of the locking nut and fine tuners. It just depends on what set of problems work for you. With the vintage tremelo you do have to change your play style a bit unless you don't want to use the trem. I am going to get a custom suhr modern and i will be ordering it with a Gotoh floyd rose. I like the idea that once it is set you never really have to mess with saddle height or intonation because it is locked. You can bend notes and they will stay in tune without having to dump the bar and reset it. Plus you never really have to worry about having a bone nut redone.

Appreciate the info. I've never played on any vintage style trem bridges. The 1st and only trem guitar I have has an original German Floyd and has been hassle free and stable as all get out. The only time I have to re-adjust intonation/height is when I change string gauges, which I've been doing a lot of lately, and then it takes some time and tinkering :(
But yeah, once its dialed in and locked down, solid as a rock.
 
If anyone care the key that i have found with a floating trem besides all the typical like lube everything is to play with the bar while your tuning it. If your tuning the guitar and not touching the bar your going to have issues. Tune a string tap the bar. Keep doing it until it is in tune. If your doing huge bends you are going to have to tap the bar to get it back in tune. Don from Suhr told me not to over stretch the strings with this system. Just do typical bends that you would do in real life. I am going to put a third spring in because mine only came with two. I want to make it less sensitive to pick attach etc.
 
SpiderWars":hj2ovswa said:
If you normally tune by frequently pressing the trem (such that it comes back in tune after using trem) then it seems like you couldn't tune like that with it blocked with picks. That is, you could be tuning the guitar with the already-bent (and thus flat) strings. Seems like now if you were to use the trem it would come back sharp.
Yep, I glossed over it above, probably should have been more clear. :thumbsup:
 
The best way around it is to not dive bomb like that or install a Floyd....or just time to get a guitar with a Floyd.... Nothing wrong with needing a reason to buy another guitar!
 
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