Tone of an Bogner 4x12?

A

Alex_S

Active member
Hi,

I have an 90s Bogner 4x12 here. Originally it Came loaded with V30s, which I didn't like very much (at least at non earth shattering volumes). I converted it to a combination of Scumback Gs and Hs which I like much better.

Now my question: I have the same speaker combination in a 2x12 cab. The 2x12 compared to the Bogner sounds so much more transparent, open, wider range. The Bogner lacks serious air and sounds mid heavy and compressed in comparison. Is this "the Bogner sound" people like so much? A lot of people say Bogner cabs are best in market, so I wonder if something is wrong with mine or if that is the special sound people like (and I don't like too much).

And second question, can anything be done against this to open it up more and bring back high frequencies? Speaker change helped but didn't fix it completely?

Ciao Alex
 
Yeah the Bogner sound is built around the V30s so that's prob why it's not sounding right to you.
 
One 'easy' thing you could try is take the back-board off;
it'll certainly open the sound up,unless you've an absolute hatred of open-back cabs.
Or have part-open ,if it sounds promising with the back open.
If that doesn't do it,then (& I've no particular alternative suggestions,as I like V30's/G12-H)
... it's the near-endless voyage through all these different speaker options out there....
Or,(a differently resonating Cabinet/Speaker Baffle-Board), New Cab :-(
Hope it goes straightforward for you. Regards & GoodLuck.
 
Thanks for the tips. I will try playing it "open" to see if the difference is doing it for me. As I really LOVE the same speakers in a different cab, it seems to be the cabinet itself I don't like too much.

So you hear it also that (mid heavy, not much upper highs, not very open) way but like it that way?
 
It was a 10 minute comparison between 2 Bogner cabs,when I got my XTC (20th Anni w/ 6L6's),a few moons ago.
Lowish volume through a closed-back 4x12 (w/ X pattern V30-G12-H's),
and ,the sadly now discontinued open-back 412O.With the SAME speakers.More dimension,airy,etc...Great cleans and even response;it just felt 'alive'.
With more volume,the closed-back would likely get into it's stride. And me evicted!
Yep, the words mid-heavy,not much openness are familiar.Upper highs were ok;the 'feel' was the deal-clincher.
I went with the (slightly smaller box) open version.
(And also recently an empty Alchemist 2X12,to be paired-up w/ Eminence EJ-1250's)
{ I remember a post about someone removing the 'white backing foam' from inside their Bogner 2X12 to change the sound.Anything
like that in your big cab? N.B. with a lot of volume,unwanted resonances MAY build up in the 'livelier' box...}
As your 2X12 is gelling with you, is the board (the speakers are on) flexy/resonant, and less 'solid' than the big cab?
A more invasive course could be having similar baffle-boards . A lot of work.....and would utterly devalue the re-saleability.
Bogner gear is well made(including outsourced manufacture);your cab's 'SIDES' are structurally solid? (doesn't creak or wobble?).

PS I read mention of Bogner & Diezel cabs being made by the same OEM manufacturer ( in Europe,maybe?),any folk out there chime-in?
 
Yes, your description fits what I hear. I mean ithat is for sure not bad sounding, just not what I prefer and I wondered after hearing so much praise for the Bogner cabs if that is what other people especially like about it.

And yes, mine has the foam in it. maybe I will try how it sounds without it...

For the front, I don't know. Need to open both cabs for a comparison, but I wouldn't change that anyway. If it is really a wanted attribute of the cab I'd rather sell the Bogner cab and go for something different then destroy it. The sides are pretty much identical in thickness and felt stability. Don't know about the wood choices though.

I heard the Friedmans actually do sound different, but haven't had the chance to test out in person. Would be interesting...
 
I'd love to a/b a stock Bogner cab with the poly fill and one without the fill. I am too lazy to take the back off my cab and reverse it. Plus it's a PITA to get the back off.
 
UberschallEL34":1khktttd said:
I'd love to a/b a stock Bogner cab with the poly fill and one without the fill. I am too lazy to take the back off my cab and reverse it. Plus it's a PITA to get the back off.
Click to expand...

I did that and with the poly fill, there is more low end that is also tighter. With it removed, a bit less low end that is looser, not loose per se, just not quite as tight as with it. The poly fill doesn't darken the highs really, just focuses and clarifies that part of the spectrum to reduce some of that white noise wash one may get with V30s at loud volumes.
 
Hi guys,

I finally found the time to experiment with what you suggested. So I opened the cab and first tried it completely open and what should I say: problem solved. It was a huge difference (to my ears) and sounded like there suddenly was space between the notes. That also fixed my "highs" problem which I now think was not so much a lack of highs but something like each note was too broad and didn't leave space between the notes. I wrongly attributed it to the highs because I usually hear the note separation more in the highs than the mids. (damn sounds are so hard to describe once you leave the "it sounds like a Marshall or Fender" area).

So next test was closed without foam. Therefore I simply turned around the back because I wanted to hear the difference without doing some "non reversible" changes. But what should I say: now it was perfect. It had the tightness of a closed box again but also so note separation, air/openess between the notes I was missing initially.

Long story cut short: I removed the foam and now it sounds amazing. Absolutely what I was searching for. I only can recommend to test this (by turning around the back of the cab) for every Bogner standard 4x12 cab owner. Btw especially to people who describe "blanket before the cab" sounds. It might not be the amp but the cab and this change fixes it! Very happy with the change and thanks to you guys for the hints!

Ciao Alex
 
Great to hear things have worked out for you(and I got some good tips from all the posts;Cheers!).
Now enjoy the Music :). Regards, David.
 
I haven't opened up my two new cabs from 2014, but my older cab had the poly fill....Is that still standard?
 
I just tried a new X pattern in one of my Bogner cabs. I got it stock with V30's and G12M-65's in an X, but I wasn't really digging the M's, so I put pulled them and put in two G12H-75's and man what a difference. I mix that with a standard rear loaded UberCab, and it's a huge sounding mix. My neighbors hate me a lot.......
 
Love my Bogner cabs...
OS212
Slant 412 V30 20th Anni version
UberKab V30/GT75

All brilliant sounding cabs with the right amount of liveliness and punch.
 
UberschallEL34":2gxwle8p said:
I'd love to a/b a stock Bogner cab with the poly fill and one without the fill. I am too lazy to take the back off my cab and reverse it. Plus it's a PITA to get the back off.
Click to expand...

Basically you can A/B a Bogner cab and a Friedman cab and get this type of comparison.
 
For fun yesterday, I was working on my old Mesa Dual Rec and comparing it through the old angled recto standard oversize cab vs. my rear-loaded UberKab, and my Bogner V30/Creamback 75 X pattern. Both Bogner cabs blew away the old Boogie. That used to be my tried and true cab. Now, it's for sale lol. Seems like the poly fill has a pleasing effect, as does everything else in the design. A clear winner.
 
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