Bogner 4 x 12 with V30's - Harsh

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psmith68

Active member
Wondering what people's thoughts are on this - I've had the same Bogner 4 x 12 for about 5 years. I purchased it brand new. It's the straight cab, 16 OHM with V30's.

I've used the cab with all the great Bogner amps: Shiva 20th, Ecstasy 101b and now the Helios 100W. The thing that I cannot get past is that I cannot get any of the amps, past or present to NOT sound harsh. It's that high end, "ice pick" harshness that to my ears, makes the amp sound thin and unpleasant.

I tried all the settings in the Bogner Helios Video Manual and to me, my setup doesn't sound the same. The best "test" for me is muting the strings towards the nut and percussively playing all the strings. It just sound too damn tinny and harsh, consider I'm using some great gear (including a Les Paul R9).

I know people will chime in that V30's are the problem but I just can't buy that - every major amp maker pretty much used them in their cabs and the "stock" option.

Is it possible the cabinet has a problem?? I can't imagine it does but for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to eliminate these harsh frequencies.

Thanks.
 
I would wonder if in the 5 yrs you've had the cab if you've been able to really crank it and get those V30s a chance to break in knowing that they need that to sound their best.
 
I had a Bogner straight as well as a slant 4x12. Sold them both for the same reason. I swore off V30's. Recently I've been using a Mojotone 4x12 with Greenbacks on the top and V30s on the bottom in the Friedman way. It sounds stellar!

Got access to a pair of Greenbacks to stick in the top? I'd give that a try before I got rid of it.......
 
I have the same love/hate relationship with V30s. There are days when they sound perfect but most of time I find them overly harsh and dry sounding. I'm currently running my Ecstasy Classic into a Marshall 412 with a mix of CL80 and H30 anniversary. It sounds pretty good but not the best option for this amp. I also run it into my Mesa 212 which is currently loaded with Weber Legacy and Gray Wolf (high powered GB and V30 variants but warmer than the Celestion counterparts)

I'd recommend swapping two of the V30s in your Bogner cab with Greenbacks or H30s.
 
If I turn the presence off (all the way down) and put the treble around 1100, it sounds much better. (Thanks for BrentSP on the Bogner Amp Forum for the tip). Really, I'd love to trade this 4 x 12 for a 2 x 12 and I'd be willing to make it an even swap. I just don't need the big 4 x 12.
 
Speakers are always a matter of taste. I personally find vintage 30 darker than greeback for g12h30s. What people underestimate or I gnome is room acoustic and position you are from the can. Standing waves from bare walls can make a huge difference
 
The V30 bite is not for everyone. As mentioned, you might want to try something different. You don't mention, is this a front load or rear load cab? If it's a FL, you are probably better off with a RL, and something like a K75 or K100 that is more neutral without that "sizzle."
 
I adjusted the EQ so the presence is OFF and treble is around 9 o'clock and everything sound much better. Seems counterintuitive but I'm much happier with the way the amp and cab sound.
 
Modern Chinese V30s are harsh. Try a Mesa Traditional 4x12, they have V30s that are way smoother, since they are closer to the original design.
 
Yeah that's the way V30's sound. That harshness you hear when you're playing by yourself is the same frequency band that helps you cut through the mix in a band setting.
Easy solution, sell the V30's on CL and buy something else.
 
guitarnerdswe":1znmo8dx said:
Modern Chinese V30s are harsh. Try a Mesa Traditional 4x12, they have V30s that are way smoother, since they are closer to the original design.
Click to expand...

Don't agree, with this. I have them both and there's now differance in sound.
The old English V30s sound just as harsh as the later Chinese versions when standing right in front of them
 
dorrus":v77y3pn6 said:
guitarnerdswe":v77y3pn6 said:
Modern Chinese V30s are harsh. Try a Mesa Traditional 4x12, they have V30s that are way smoother, since they are closer to the original design.
Click to expand...

Don't agree, with this. I have them both and there's now differance in sound.
The old English V30s sound just as harsh as the later Chinese versions when standing right in front of them
Click to expand...
The internet would not agree. Many, many guys, including myself hear a noticeable difference between the different V30's. Especially the Mesa version.
 
Grill cloth on the Mesa cabs is also dipped in a coating that sweetens & softens the typical harshness of a V30. The difference between a Chinese V30 and Mesa V30 is a lot less prominent when comparing using the exact same cab.
 
There are at least four different versions of the V30 speaker, starting in 1985/86 to present. This evidenced by the changing Txxxx codes on the frames. Celestion puts a different Txxxx code on any change in the speaker if it's got different materials/specs/etc.

The ones from the 80's are the best IMO, and there are different versions made for Mesa, Marshall and one other amp company (can't remember which right now) all with the Vintage 30 label.

I'm not quoting from internet lore, or other player's posts, this is just what I've actually seen/pictured over the last 17 years I've been researching the old Celestion speakers.

So there is a difference in the V30 from different eras. I haven't checked the Chinese made versions, but if they are different then that would make five distinct V30 variants.

The upper mid peak/spike of the V30 is well documented online, and that's just what it does. Works for some, doesn't work for others. It's all a matter of personal preference, of course.
 
Yes V30s' have an upper mid spike, I've tried to like them too but they are just too cutting for my taste. I've bounced between V30s' and GBs' for years, even combined them. I find GBs' too dark with Bogner voicing though. I've just stumbled on a Celestion Gold 2x12 cab and it sounds glorious with both my 100B and 20th Shiva, less boxy and mid spikey than the V30s' and more 3D. I also like the WGS Veteran 30s' with Bogner amps.
 
lkft":297cad80 said:
I would wonder if in the 5 yrs you've had the cab if you've been able to really crank it and get those V30s a chance to break in knowing that they need that to sound their best.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup:

I find they're pretty harsh until they're pushed for several hours (days??) of playing. Then they soften up and that mid-spike tone is beautiful in the mix, recorded, solo, jammin', or whatever else... I love 'em so long as they're broken in.
 
i had the same problem with my Rivera Bonehead 4x12 cab. i traded someone for a set of greenbacks. that cabinet was my fave cab of any we a/b'ed it with. included some fancy scumback cabs et al. (no offense just my preference and i was comparing 2x12 with a 4x12) that said my mesa slant cab with 4x12 V30's was a great one too. i'm going to be interested to hear the new 2x12 bogner helios cab with creamback 65 and V30 combo. i have a helios 100 watter head but no cab til tues.! grrrrrh.....
 
I'm still extremely frustrated by my Helios 100 W and 4 x 12 with V30's. The amp sounds great when mic'd and running through a mixer to headphones or PA speakers but it is got too much of that spike harshness and nasally tone when listening to it direct from the cab. I'm sure the speakers are broken in, they're quite a few years old. Something just isn't right.
 
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