Bogner Helios killing Hot input preamp tube! WTF?

TheRealJTM45

New member
Hey guys,

not sure what to make of it but my Helios is sort of having preamp tubes for lunch....This is already the second tube that hasn't survived more than 5 hours. Its the tube in the third socket that blows after a short while. Usually the amp gets noisy shortly before the tube fails, which is especially audible when you plug/unplug i from either the vintage or hot input...then all of a sudden the Hot input is dead....

I am not too worried in a sense as this is happening in the preamp section but either there is something wrong with my amp specifically or there is a flaw in the general design of the section such that the tubes blow.

Would be cool if some other Helios owners could chime in in case you know of the problem...
Thx
 
I wonder if this might be a problem with mine as well. Same tube went out in mine and had it replaced. After replacing it, the hum died down a bit but there is still so much hum! It's annoying. Sorry I don't have any help but I'm interested in hearing what solutions there might be. It kind of sucks because I got mine second hand, so I have no warranty. I wonder if there is some easy fix?
 
Unfortunately I dont live currently in the US and I don't have any way to contact information how to call the guys at Bogner.

BTW did any of you notice hum and hiss when you don't have the guitar cable plugged in to any of the two inputs? My Helios is making more noise w/o it then when I am playing one of the channels. Thats really weird, I mean I have had several Bogners and other boutique stuff but that is something I haven't experienced before with any other amp.

Can anyone confirm? I mean is it a bug or a feature?
Thx
 
TheRealJTM45":1yr4pibl said:
Unfortunately I dont live currently in the US and I don't have any way to contact information how to call the guys at Bogner.

BTW did any of you notice hum and hiss when you don't have the guitar cable plugged in to any of the two inputs? My Helios is making more noise w/o it then when I am playing one of the channels. Thats really weird, I mean I have had several Bogners and other boutique stuff but that is something I haven't experienced before with any other amp.

Can anyone confirm? I mean is it a bug or a feature?
Thx

I've had three different Helios'. They all had a "hum"...seems to be in the design. Charlie said they all do that.
 
Hi all,

got news for you....I was wrong regarding the socket so the issue is in fact V1. Took the amp out of the chassis to check for the connections and looks like Bogner is using V1 as the Hot Plexi input tube. First thing I noticed was that Bogner clips the pins in order to get the rigid wire connections onto the socket pins which in my book makes the solder joints very prone to connection issues as any mechanical stress on the pins (i.e. when pulling the tubes) will result in unneccesary strain on the solder connections. So I resoldered to make sure there are no cracks/cold solder joints and that worked for a while. Now today unplugged from the Plexi inpunt to the Hot plexi and the same thing all over. Had no time to check if the tube is broken again but I let me tell you am really p.... off. I might need to check if there is an issue with the supply voltage etc....Let me know if anyone has an idea what to look for....
 
I took the time and traced the connections from the hot plexi input up to the V1 tube, too as the solders on the socket were definitely ok. Now on closer inspection I found that the connecting wire from the cathode resistor/cap combination to the tube socket wasn't properly soldered. The wire end was sort of untwisted at the connection point and just hanging on some single fibres. I fixed it and for now the amp works fine again.

The real bummer for me is that based on my findings I took a close look at the other wire connections from the preamp tubes to the board and I can see that some of the wire ends have the same issues. The ends many times are not twisted and the solder hasn't really bonded to form a proper connection - at least in my book. Now you could say that it surely is not a big thing as the average user will never mess around with the wires inside the amp and I would agree. Anyway, in my case the soldering was way too sloppy and that has most likely caused the problem. So while all the parts used in the amp are top quality I hate to say that at least on my amp I cannot say the same when it comes to craftmanship of the soldering. I will definitely resolder those joints and connections. This is definitely not the quality I would expect looking at the price tag. My new Friedman Smallbox looked way better in that department when I had it on my workbench lately.

Whatever - I hope that this will fix the problem once and for all...
Thx to those who responded.
 
I just don't understand how Bogner continue to release products knowing they have issues.
1st was the hum, next was the effects loop noise, then I've been told it will pick up radio stations depending on your house power.
This is why I'm still reluctant to buy one.
What really gets me is their attitude when you go to them for help.
Last time I tried talking to them was about my 101B making loud popping noises when channel switching, was told that's just how it is, either live with it or sell it & try another one.
Wow
 
I have a Bogner Helios 100 watt head. I haven't had a single issue with it yet. It does pickup lots of noises from my cell phone when I leave it on top of my head at rehearsals. No hum on mine either. I do wish it had another stage of gain. That's about it.
 
I wanted to come back to this thread because I saw some remarks about quality issues and about the build quality of the Helios. Just to make it clear: In general you can say that the amp is very well built from a mechanical POV and the components are really high in quality, no doubt about it.

Anyway, for me the Bogner stuff is lacking in the electrical engineering department.While I think that Reinhold has the best pair of ears in the business (he really knows what an amp has to sound like) I think he never really dug deep into theory beyond anything tube amps.

Thats why I think it was a wise decision to stop using their own FX loop in the Helios. Their own FX loop designs never worked for me.
Thats on the positive side.On the other hand I don't get why none of the connections to V1 are properly shielded. It is sort of textbook 101 stuff here. But the one thing I really don't like in this is amp is the preamp tubes being connected via rigid metal rails. While the sockets are top quality and very tight fitting it means you need to use a lot more force to get the tubes out in case you are testing different tube brands or simply replacing a broken one. Many people will automatically start wiggling them out if they are that tight. This is not a big deal if the pins are connected using wires as the wires will prevent mechanical interaction by their elastic nature. With the fixed rail connection the mechanical stress gets down to the sockets pins and is then transmitted via the rails to all the connected rigid solder joints. As commercially sold product need to use the ROHS solder and because of that solder type being less elastic compared to the lead based one, there is a high probability in this setup that any flaw in the soldering causes a connection to break under that mechanical stress overt time. Most likely right at the pins where the forces are applied but thanks to the rail connection the other joints are always connected/affected, too. I guess it is a time saver when building the amp to use the rails but not a good design.

Don't get me wrong. This is sort of big time whining but playing tube amps for nearly 30 years I have seen better designs than Bogners for less money. Reinhold is really I wise and smart marketing guy as he turned that particular weakness into his strength by serving the sound purist with Cro-Mag technology while everyone else goes crazy for digital modeling amps. Fine with me and I hope he will be in business for a long time as I do like old technology. Anyway, time marches on and amps got more refined in general such that to me it starts to sounds more like a fig leaf for covering a bit of the shallowness in the technical department. In contrast when I bought my Diezel VH4s in 2001 it already had full Midi implementation, really noiseless switching, a parallel/serial FX loop that would handle anything you would throw at it, individual channel inserts and it was a stereo capable head.

I had the Ecstasy 100A, Shiva, Goldfinger45, and now the Helios and they all had their "issues". For example the 100A would make loud pops when switching from Green to Blue, the Shivas FX loop wasn't really of any use while I found the Goldfinger having a very basic problem with the dynamic balance of Clean and Gain channel etc. Soundwise I was always a happy camper with Bogner but it were those technical issues that made me sell them in the end.

And here I am again. I really do love to play the Helios as it is the best sounding rock amp I had over the years but I will never sell the Diezel VH4 and that should tell you something. So far the amp works and I think I will keep it but not without some modding.
 
Bogner tone was there in the couple I had but they always had some weird operational quirks or issues that just didn’t jive with the price points...

Go elsewhere, at this point there are plenty of Bogner quality options to stick with a brand name and have to compromise in any way.
 
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