Bogner Shiva Tube Question

Hey guys, I have a 6L6 Shiva (Revision Traffic Green 2) amp that I've played with for the past decade or so. As of the last year, I started using it with a Torpedo Live. With this setup, I have been using the Ownhammer Bogner Shiva 2X12 pack and I found the Classic Lead 80 speaker IR to sound as close as I can get to my 1X12 combo (also has the Classic Lead 80...). It is worth noting that the amp was modded by Voodoo Amps to have a variable gain control for the boost channel, so it has a bit more sack than a stock model. I usually play a Strat with 3 Kinman single coil P/U and I had the tendency to live on the bridge pickup with the gain channels due to the dark quality of them. I end up having to dime the treble control and have the presence set fairly high. Lately, i have been gravitating to the clean channel, which is killer with my strat in all pickup positions. I would really like to utilize my other pickups when in my boost gain channel, but the low end is super muddy and dark on the neck. I would love to have that low end sizzle and whack that I hear in my cleans. I also still can hear it in the unboosted gain channel. I have been going crazy with trying to find that magical frequency to eq both before the input and after the torpedo, but I can't seem to figure this out, then it occurred to me that utilizing different tubes could be the answer.

What i am really looking to find out is which preamp tubes are responsible for shaping the tone of the 2nd channel and its boost? I would assume the preamp tubes are going to have the most influence in this battle, but please tell me if the power tubes would also influence this as well.

Its worth noting that i have 6L6 JJ's for power tubes and it appears that all of the preamp tubes are Sovtek 12AX7's...

Stick some Tung-Sol, or high grade Chinese, or TAD7025S in the first few V sockets to brighten it up. Could be your tubes need replacing our a slightly hotter or colder bias.

Cheers
Mo

fantastic! thanks for the reply. After further examination, the preamp tubes look like a mix between 7-9 years old... I am curious to know what a different tube will do...

cpiquette":26jum538 said:

fantastic! thanks for the reply. After further examination, the preamp tubes look like a mix between 7-9 years old... I am curious to know what a different tube will do...

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Depending on how much you've used your amp for the last 7 or 9 years, a helluva lot

New glass - that's my recommendation - all new preamps right through to new power tubes. You can do this economically with some high-grade Chinese 12AX7 preamps in all the V sockets 1 to 7, and two new matched 6L6 (Svetlana, JJ, you can ask for recommendations on here but this far into the game practically any fresh glass is going to make worlds of difference - seriously!!).

Hang in there - your Shiva will be aces

Mo

Edit: not all preamp sockets may be used dependent on whether or not you have a reverb loaded head. Just FYI.

thanks Mo. I changed the power tubes about a year ago, so those are good for a bit. Its the preamp tubes that haven't been touched in a while. Any thoughts on Sino's? I saw on some website that they have a bright tonality...

cpiquette":qxgxpe0c said:

thanks Mo. I changed the power tubes about a year ago, so those are good for a bit. Its the preamp tubes that haven't been touched in a while. Any thoughts on Sino's? I saw on some website that they have a bright tonality...

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Don't get too wrapped up in the brands - it's a rabbit hole... For an economical re-tube, HG Chinese 12AX7 for all sockets. A little pricier? Look at the new Svetlana 12AX7 preamp. And if you're hyper critical - go with an LPS in the PI slot. But to keep shit simple - straight up C9s and you're good to go (along with a re-bias/bias-check just for good measure )

Mo

Ventura":17fitgpk said:

cpiquette":17fitgpk said:

thanks Mo. I changed the power tubes about a year ago, so those are good for a bit. Its the preamp tubes that haven't been touched in a while. Any thoughts on Sino's? I saw on some website that they have a bright tonality...

Click to expand...

Don't get too wrapped up in the brands - it's a rabbit hole... For an economical re-tube, HG Chinese 12AX7 for all sockets. A little pricier? Look at the new Svetlana 12AX7 preamp. And if you're hyper critical - go with an LPS in the PI slot. But to keep shit simple - straight up C9s and you're good to go (along with a re-bias/bias-check just for good measure )

Mo

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Sweet. Thats exactly what i needed to hear!I appreciate your input

cpiquette":38j37xge said:

Ventura":38j37xge said:

cpiquette":38j37xge said:

thanks Mo. I changed the power tubes about a year ago, so those are good for a bit. Its the preamp tubes that haven't been touched in a while. Any thoughts on Sino's? I saw on some website that they have a bright tonality...

Click to expand...

Don't get too wrapped up in the brands - it's a rabbit hole... For an economical re-tube, HG Chinese 12AX7 for all sockets. A little pricier? Look at the new Svetlana 12AX7 preamp. And if you're hyper critical - go with an LPS in the PI slot. But to keep shit simple - straight up C9s and you're good to go (along with a re-bias/bias-check just for good measure )

Mo

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Sweet. Thats exactly what i needed to hear!I appreciate your input

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My pleasure! I love Bogners, and I love to spread the vibe!!

I just went to demo the same Shiva 6L6 head you have, but no reverb, and for some reason a knuckleheadtraded it in with no footswitch. Question is, what would you know about the tonal differences in the cleans if you were to go to the El-34, or 20th Ann KT-88's? Is it worth me checking out a Goldfinger 45 or a XTC Classic?

ToneSeeker1969":3as15utm said:

I just went to demo the same Shiva 6L6 head you have, but no reverb, and for some reason a knuckleheadtraded it in with no footswitch. Question is, what would you know about the tonal differences in the cleans if you were to go to the El-34, or 20th Ann KT-88's? Is it worth me checking out a Goldfinger 45 or a XTC Classic?

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Dude you just rattled off 5 different amp types

Shiva has killer cleans - let's reverse the question and ask "what kind of cleans are you looking for??"
20thX is a killer amp - period.
6L6 is sweeter in general, EL34 is more mid-rich.
But these are sweeping generalizations and I have come to realize that those who play a lot and seriously get down and give 'er care less about the smaller technical details and just want an amp that goes. If you're gigging or jamming or recording your amp at high volume - many things come into play. If you're a bedroom Beethoven, it don't matter a damn.

If you're in an area that allows for access to amps, go play a few. I'm an EL34 kinda guy, typically, but once master volumes start getting past noon on the dial and air starts getting pushed, a lot of finnicky interwebz details melt away.

Peace

Ventura":1pstd3hx said:

ToneSeeker1969":1pstd3hx said:

I just went to demo the same Shiva 6L6 head you have, but no reverb, and for some reason a knuckleheadtraded it in with no footswitch. Question is, what would you know about the tonal differences in the cleans if you were to go to the El-34, or 20th Ann KT-88's? Is it worth me checking out a Goldfinger 45 or a XTC Classic?

Click to expand...

Dude you just rattled off 5 different amp types

Shiva has killer cleans - let's reverse the question and ask "what kind of cleans are you looking for??"
20thX is a killer amp - period.
6L6 is sweeter in general, EL34 is more mid-rich.
But these are sweeping generalizations and I have come to realize that those who play a lot and seriously get down and give 'er care less about the smaller technical details and just want an amp that goes. If you're gigging or jamming or recording your amp at high volume - many things come into play. If you're a bedroom Beethoven, it don't matter a damn.

If you're in an area that allows for access to amps, go play a few. I'm an EL34 kinda guy, typically, but once master volumes start getting past noon on the dial and air starts getting pushed, a lot of finnicky interwebz details melt away.

Peace

Click to expand...

I'm looking for fender-like cleans for funk and jazz guitar, but want the to be able to get some nice funky blues rock type of grind with a strat. I liked the 6L6 Shiva, but it's the only one I've had an opportunity to play through. The reason I mentioned the other amp models, that they were suggestedbu other posters. After checking out a few videos, I was impressed with the Goldfinger. I was really just looking for constructive input from some Bogner owners. I owned a 1996 Ecstasy 101B, and still have the cab. I will be playing smaller clubs and weddings, and the occasional theatre gig, so not just plying on my bedroom.

ToneSeeker1969":yt7mhg40 said:

Ventura":yt7mhg40 said:

ToneSeeker1969":yt7mhg40 said:

I just went to demo the same Shiva 6L6 head you have, but no reverb, and for some reason a knuckleheadtraded it in with no footswitch. Question is, what would you know about the tonal differences in the cleans if you were to go to the El-34, or 20th Ann KT-88's? Is it worth me checking out a Goldfinger 45 or a XTC Classic?

Click to expand...

Dude you just rattled off 5 different amp types

Shiva has killer cleans - let's reverse the question and ask "what kind of cleans are you looking for??"
20thX is a killer amp - period.
6L6 is sweeter in general, EL34 is more mid-rich.
But these are sweeping generalizations and I have come to realize that those who play a lot and seriously get down and give 'er care less about the smaller technical details and just want an amp that goes. If you're gigging or jamming or recording your amp at high volume - many things come into play. If you're a bedroom Beethoven, it don't matter a damn.

If you're in an area that allows for access to amps, go play a few. I'm an EL34 kinda guy, typically, but once master volumes start getting past noon on the dial and air starts getting pushed, a lot of finnicky interwebz details melt away.

Peace

Click to expand...

I'm looking for fender-like cleans for funk and jazz guitar, but want the to be able to get some nice funky blues rock type of grind with a strat. I liked the 6L6 Shiva, but it's the only one I've had an opportunity to play through. The reason I mentioned the other amp models, that they were suggestedbu other posters. After checking out a few videos, I was impressed with the Goldfinger. I was really just looking for constructive input from some Bogner owners. I owned a 1996 Ecstasy 101B, and still have the cab. I will be playing smaller clubs and weddings, and the occasional theatre gig, so not just plying on my bedroom.

Click to expand...

Stick with the Shiva - 6L6 or EL34 - it'll take you where you wan to go. The XTC is quite a step up in price and it seems to me the ground you want to cover will be well covered by the Sheevs. XTC will be overkill - and overpriced. AWESOME amp yes, but also comes with a pricetag.

When I think "Shiva cleans" - I think Telecaster spank, Strat style blues, finger-pickin' goodness. It does this 110% man. Check out some of the YT vids...

This guy's great:

What's your take on the reverb? Not worth the extra weight? I don't necessarily have to use it, because I have a TC Nova system, but I thought it might nice to have it on hand in the event I want to run to a quick jam without having to drag pedals around. As long as it doesn't compromise the dirty channel in any way. Some other poster have led me to believe that. I am thinking head, not combo, so maybe the extra weight wouldn't be an issue. I saw one just like we're describing, 6L6 Green Plate, no verb for $1725.... But I would have to buy a footswitch. Is that a good deal?

ToneSeeker1969":38bouxn5 said:

What's your take on the reverb? Not worth the extra weight? I don't necessarily have to use it, because I have a TC Nova system, but I thought it might nice to have it on hand in the event I want to run to a quick jam without having to drag pedals around. As long as it doesn't compromise the dirty channel in any way. Some other poster have led me to believe that. I am thinking head, not combo, so maybe the extra weight wouldn't be an issue. I saw one just like we're describing, 6L6 Green Plate, no verb for $1725.... But I would have to buy a footswitch. Is that a good deal?

Click to expand...

I sought and bought a 20thA Sheevs, NO verb, FWIW.

Ventura":3ggz4v56 said:

ToneSeeker1969":3ggz4v56 said:

What's your take on the reverb? Not worth the extra weight? I don't necessarily have to use it, because I have a TC Nova system, but I thought it might nice to have it on hand in the event I want to run to a quick jam without having to drag pedals around. As long as it doesn't compromise the dirty channel in any way. Some other poster have led me to believe that. I am thinking head, not combo, so maybe the extra weight wouldn't be an issue. I saw one just like we're describing, 6L6 Green Plate, no verb for $1725.... But I would have to buy a footswitch. Is that a good deal?

Click to expand...

I sought and bought a 20thA Sheevs, NO verb, FWIW.

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Well I finally got myself the 6L6 Shiva NR. Trying to choose a cab that matches. Thinking opened back 212. I have to decide if the V30's are the way to go. I'm looking for some nice cleans with some headroom. Any suggestions? I'm thinking about mixing a V30 with a Creamback m65 or H75.