Null mic?

Shark Diver

New member
Any chance of that in future software? Love what I am getting, but just would like to experiment without a mic sim. Thanks, d.
 
Hi, not quite sure what you are looking for exactly? Are you saying you'd like to have IR's of Cabs but without any characteristics of the microphone or placement? In that case the solution is both easy and impossible. Easy in the sense that one would just need to capture the cabinet without changing or moving the microphones. This you could do yourself using the free Torpedo Capture software on the two-notes site. There are 512 available slots of these files on the Live. The problem is how would you record the IR of a cabinet without a microphone?

I'll let Guillaume answer with the details but it may be possible to a) find a measurement microphone with minimal coloration, b) find a reference speaker with closest to flat response in the testing environment and using the result, create a baseline to subtract the microphone from the equation. This would not account for the characteristics of whatever playback method is used (ie the speakers that would be used) and in the case of a recording or performance, the microphone used to capture the result. I am guessing you really are wishing for a modelling cabinet....nothing is impossible, I am aware of a future project whereby thousands of speakers are to be used in a venue to recreate the ambiance of other famous concert halls on demand.

Andy
 
I understand what you are saying. But really it is a just another eq curve, no? Albeit a complex one. From what you are saying I am taking it that when a cab is loaded it is really a cab and mic IR. Then if I select another mic it is not only selecting the mic but completely loading a new IR with the speaker of choice. So it is not a cab IR and a Mic IR separate of each other. If there are 9 mics then there are 9 v30 IRs with that mic. Not one V30 IR which is then being run through a mic IR.


I understand. I was just interested in hearing the cab without the mic, as you would if you were standing next to the cab as it was being recorded. :)
 
You can look into the Redwirez IR's which include reference mic versions, and run them in the Two Note's world. They use the Earthworks TC30/M50 high-end reference mics. They are flat as a pancake and have a phenomenal frequency response (3Hz-50KHz for the M50).
 
djd100":1q9egg23 said:
You can look into the Redwirez IR's which include reference mic versions, and run them in the Two Note's world. They use the Earthworks TC30/M50 high-end reference mics. They are flat as a pancake and have a phenomenal frequency response (3Hz-50KHz for the M50).


Very cool. Thank you.
 
But really it is a just another eq curve, no? Albeit a complex one.

Well, yes but the curve depends not only on the mic frequency response, but as well on its interaction with the speaker (radiation pattern of the speaker and polar sensitivity pattern of the microphone).


From what you are saying I am taking it that when a cab is loaded it is really a cab and mic IR. Then if I select another mic it is not only selecting the mic but completely loading a new IR with the speaker of choice. So it is not a cab IR and a Mic IR separate of each other. If there are 9 mics then there are 9 v30 IRs with that mic. Not one V30 IR which is then being run through a mic IR.

Each position of the microphone is a dedicated IR synthesis, based on true measurement of the whole system (including the mic preamp). It is not that easy to dissociate the mc from the speaker cabinet, but we are working on it. ;)
 
I would love a "null" mic too, that's how I use to used my Axe FX : speaker bloc with no mic set. It has better results with headphones.
 
music-fails-no-no-the-round-end-is-for-singing-into.jpg




Andy (with tongue in cheek)
 
guillaume_pille":3b0yzwrr said:
So, obviously, with a "null mic", there won't be any possibility of moving the microphone.

Would that be OK?


The idea behind a Null Mic is more of an "in the room" sound, rather than a recorded sound. For the LIVE this makes sense to me on stage in my monitor (since I have no cab), not necessarily FoH. :)

Just a thought, I am quite happy as is now. :thumbsup:
 
Shark Diver":3ohytg0n said:
I was just interested in hearing the cab without the mic, as you would if you were standing next to the cab as it was being recorded. :)

To me that would be : one mic for each ear, and since the ear is not unidirectional, each mic would be some kind of "room mic" that has the broadband and eq response of the ear, and since your left ear is slightly different than the other, then the two mics should be slightly different :) And of course you would have to position them like you would position your ears in the room.

There was a "miking for acoustic guitars" video tutorial on some website, where on a certain setup, if you listened to the miked performance on monitors and closes your eyes, you would thing the guitar players were playing in the room in front of you. I guess that same kind of approach kind be extended to an amp+cab rig as well.

To have such a "real-life hearing" mic thing would be awesome :) And if you could move it like you would move your head in the room that would be awesome as well (but you would also have to add a "turn your head" parameter) :)

But considering what we have, i know that the Royer 121 sounds kinda like the "amp in the room" thing, so how about trying two of them instead of your 2 ears, and position them like your ears in the room or something ?

Just an idea :)

EDIT : actually i just realized that my logic was half-bullcrap since you would capture something that sounds like what one ears in a room, but then you would still listen to it on a pair of monitors, defeating the whole purpose i guess (but maybe listening to it on cans would sound almost like the real thing ?)...
and now i get why your "cab only" thing is not a bad idea after all...

But still, before reaching something good in terms of "cab in the room" sound, you should check out using the Royer 121 which gives the best "cab in the room" impression IMO.
 
therealdjabthrash":22aptk87 said:
Shark Diver":22aptk87 said:
I was just interested in hearing the cab without the mic, as you would if you were standing next to the cab as it was being recorded. :)

To me that would be : one mic for each ear, and since the ear is not unidirectional, each mic would be some kind of "room mic" that has the broadband and eq response of the ear, and since your left ear is slightly different than the other, then the two mics should be slightly different :) And of course you would have to position them like you would position your ears in the room.

There was a "miking for acoustic guitars" video tutorial on some website, where on a certain setup, if you listened to the miked performance on monitors and closes your eyes, you would thing the guitar players were playing in the room in front of you. I guess that same kind of approach kind be extended to an amp+cab rig as well.

To have such a "real-life hearing" mic thing would be awesome :) And if you could move it like you would move your head in the room that would be awesome as well (but you would also have to add a "turn your head" parameter) :)

But considering what we have, i know that the Royer 121 sounds kinda like the "amp in the room" thing, so how about trying two of them instead of your 2 ears, and position them like your ears in the room or something ?

Just an idea :)

EDIT : actually i just realized that my logic was half-bullcrap since you would capture something that sounds like what one ears in a room, but then you would still listen to it on a pair of monitors, defeating the whole purpose i guess (but maybe listening to it on cans would sound almost like the real thing ?)...
and now i get why your "cab only" thing is not a bad idea after all...

But still, before reaching something good in terms of "cab in the room" sound, you should check out using the Royer 121 which gives the best "cab in the room" impression IMO.


I have tried all of the mics/cabs. I do like the 121, but it wasn't as tight as the 57 for what I am doing. I am using mainly the EVM12 cab/57 combo. But it doesn't sound like my EVM12L Thiele at all. Again, I am using this in a live rig - not recording. So given the wedge vs cab, and the absence of a mic in the live rig, I get that there would be differences. Neither is better or worse - just different. But it is very hard for me to dial them in similar tone. Just thought that by subtracting the 57 it might be a closer "real cab" tone for stage. Not a major deal, as I now hear, for the most part, what the audience does. :)
 
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