Shark Diver
New member
Can't decide whether to get a second Live or a VB 101. Anyone think of any advantages a 101 would have for strictly live use? I'd really like to mix to different cab sims...
Get a second LIVE or a VB - 101?
- Thread starter Shark Diver
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Hi SharkDiver, the VB-101 can do 2 simultaneous speaker mic processes with mix and panning available, the analog outputs are on XLR connectors and there's a more complete post processing f/x menu. The extended digital i/o options are most likely for studio only however if you are using a digital foh or snake, having the ability to clock externally could be an essentially asset. You could also have a separate speaker mic set-up for your foldback (either in-ears or wedges).
In terms of how both could be used simultaneously, you could connect the first unit's thru speaker jack into the 8 ohm input of the second, connect one unit normally and tap the pre-amp out for the second (using a direct out or parallel f/x send), or connect the Live's balanced line in to the VB-101's direct out (pre simulation) with the VB-101 connected normally (amp out to speaker input).
Andy
In terms of how both could be used simultaneously, you could connect the first unit's thru speaker jack into the 8 ohm input of the second, connect one unit normally and tap the pre-amp out for the second (using a direct out or parallel f/x send), or connect the Live's balanced line in to the VB-101's direct out (pre simulation) with the VB-101 connected normally (amp out to speaker input).
Andy
Shark Diver
New member
Even though I've used both, it's been a while since the 101 and I had a different amp. But I would think so since one is reactive and one is resistive.
I was wondering about the whole resistive vs. reactive thing because I've always read that reactive loads are "better", so I found it odd their flagship product has the "inferior" load. Here's what I got when I asked:
"Well, this is not an easy question:
a reactive load will change the amplifier in a way that is less easy to correct by a DSP processing.
Every speaker cabinet has its own impedance curve, and by desiging a "fixed" reactive circuit, it is not possible to emulate all of them. And the participation in the sound of the reactive load is more important than the "frequency-linear" resistive load.
With the VB-101 and the Load Compensation funciton it is easier to work on this aspect.
The downside of the resistive load is in the upper frequency: there is no inductive effect that rises the impedance and change the amplifier response. But we correct it with the Load Compensation.
As a matter of fact, the sound is more precise and dynamic with the VB-101 and it is mainly due to the better converters/analog design and the Overload and Variphi paramter that you won't find in the Torpedo Live. And this is the most important aspect, in my opinion, more important than resistive/reactive considerations."
Edit: I've never played the Live, but I have a VB-101 and have been more than happy with it.
"Well, this is not an easy question:
a reactive load will change the amplifier in a way that is less easy to correct by a DSP processing.
Every speaker cabinet has its own impedance curve, and by desiging a "fixed" reactive circuit, it is not possible to emulate all of them. And the participation in the sound of the reactive load is more important than the "frequency-linear" resistive load.
With the VB-101 and the Load Compensation funciton it is easier to work on this aspect.
The downside of the resistive load is in the upper frequency: there is no inductive effect that rises the impedance and change the amplifier response. But we correct it with the Load Compensation.
As a matter of fact, the sound is more precise and dynamic with the VB-101 and it is mainly due to the better converters/analog design and the Overload and Variphi paramter that you won't find in the Torpedo Live. And this is the most important aspect, in my opinion, more important than resistive/reactive considerations."
Edit: I've never played the Live, but I have a VB-101 and have been more than happy with it.
guillaume_pille
Active member
Just to add a little info on my answer quoted in the previous post.
A speaker cabinet do present a reactive load to the amp. And the reactive load is different for every cabinet, depending on the embedded speaker(s) and the cabinet itself.
We chose 2 different approaches with the VB-101 and the Live:
In the VB-101, we have a flat impedance (ie pure resistance) that we correct after the load in terms of frequency response. And all-resistive network can handle very high power with no problem.
In the Live, we have a reactive impedance which is close to a kind of "average speaker impedance", with no correction after (the DSP in the Live is not strong enough to handle the CPU power needed).
What we found is that the effect of both loads was important, but not as important as the processing we could do after. I think you can find on the web a compared study of both reactive and resistive technologies. Even if I am not entirely OK with the protocol, the conclusion is mainly that the difference is not that important as one could think.
An interesting thing is that some of our customers prefer to switch off the Load Compensation on the V-101 to get a warmer tone (but harder to fit in a mix) that is easier to play with on headphones for example.
Based on our studies, the different IS important enough so we take care of it, but should not be the main argument in the choice of a VB-101 VS Live.
Of course, people who never approached bot technologies love to write pages and pages of theoretical comparison, but at some point the result is what is important, and the VB-101 is still the leader in the Torpedo series.
I remember a debate many years ago about the use of in inductive or non-inductive power resistors in loadbox. Of course the answer is that one shouldn't use and inductive resistor. The only thing is that the inductive part of the behavior of the resistor is around a few hundred KHz to MHz. Well, I don't know what kind of sound you amp is able to produce and your soundcard to record, but mine cannot go this high in frequency.
A speaker cabinet do present a reactive load to the amp. And the reactive load is different for every cabinet, depending on the embedded speaker(s) and the cabinet itself.
We chose 2 different approaches with the VB-101 and the Live:
In the VB-101, we have a flat impedance (ie pure resistance) that we correct after the load in terms of frequency response. And all-resistive network can handle very high power with no problem.
In the Live, we have a reactive impedance which is close to a kind of "average speaker impedance", with no correction after (the DSP in the Live is not strong enough to handle the CPU power needed).
What we found is that the effect of both loads was important, but not as important as the processing we could do after. I think you can find on the web a compared study of both reactive and resistive technologies. Even if I am not entirely OK with the protocol, the conclusion is mainly that the difference is not that important as one could think.
An interesting thing is that some of our customers prefer to switch off the Load Compensation on the V-101 to get a warmer tone (but harder to fit in a mix) that is easier to play with on headphones for example.
Based on our studies, the different IS important enough so we take care of it, but should not be the main argument in the choice of a VB-101 VS Live.
Of course, people who never approached bot technologies love to write pages and pages of theoretical comparison, but at some point the result is what is important, and the VB-101 is still the leader in the Torpedo series.
I remember a debate many years ago about the use of in inductive or non-inductive power resistors in loadbox. Of course the answer is that one shouldn't use and inductive resistor. The only thing is that the inductive part of the behavior of the resistor is around a few hundred KHz to MHz. Well, I don't know what kind of sound you amp is able to produce and your soundcard to record, but mine cannot go this high in frequency.
Shark Diver
New member
I've been using my LIVE with my X99 so the load hasn't been an issue - and it is friggin' amazing by the way. My I'll get the 101 for use with the heads and that will give me a chance to compare as well. 
Fuzzy phone pic:
Fuzzy phone pic:
guillaume_pille
Active member
Hey Shark Diver, will we see you at NAMM this year?
Shark Diver
New member
guillaume_pille":1zq0oavz said:
Definitely