audiomidijace
New member
Are there any clips of the same tracks being recorded with the CAB from the preamp and the LIVE being recorded from the poweramp? I have a CAB now and I'm considering upgrading.
CAB vs LIVE audio demos?
- Thread starter audiomidijace
- Start date
guillaume_pille
Active member
I don't think we ever did anything like this.
Comparing the poweramp of your head and the CAB's pow amp modeling, well, that's interesting.
I guess some people did it, maybe...
Comparing the poweramp of your head and the CAB's pow amp modeling, well, that's interesting.
I guess some people did it, maybe...
I have the ability to do this easily seeing as I have 2 TLs. I'll see what I can put together over the course of the week and post my results. I can record both signals at the same time by tapping off the effects send into the line input of one unit while feeding the 2nd unit from the speaker out. It will be the easiest way to get the exact same results in terms of equipment settings and performance.
Be sure to adjust the tube power amp sim's presence and depth to match the real deal tube power amp, because those setting are critical in getting the tube power amp sims to sound good IMO (as well as matching tube types and SE/PP etc).
I'd suggest some edge-of-break-up through pushed mid-gain tests so we can hear the power amps working in their non-linear zones, as well as duplicating the cab and mic'ing setups of course (without too much preamp saturation/noise).
I'm looking forward to hearing your tests as well, and thank you for taking the time.
I'd suggest some edge-of-break-up through pushed mid-gain tests so we can hear the power amps working in their non-linear zones, as well as duplicating the cab and mic'ing setups of course (without too much preamp saturation/noise).
I'm looking forward to hearing your tests as well, and thank you for taking the time.
audiomidijace
New member
cpiquette":1uqurbd6 said:
I would REALLY apreciate it!
OK... my initial reaction is that the amps power amp section sounds warmer than the two notes power amp sim. What I decided to do is to give you a back to back comparison of the preamp vs power amp with the same IR. I also am giving you the raw, unprocessed files to do your own experiments so that you can come to your own conclusions.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1f53cp2vl969x ... d.wav?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zz446jegkjos ... d.wav?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ebbvaydoqns73 ... d.wav?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2v7eliolha2l ... d.wav?dl=0
The guitar being used is a Gibson SG on the bridge pickup into a Bogner Shiva 6L6. In each clip, I used only the 2nd channel with varying amounts of gain. The MV was set at around 11 o clock, and the presence at 0. The first segment was with the gain at about 1 o clock. The second segment was at around 9 o clock, and the last was at 3 o clock. Each of the 4 linked WAV files are the exact same performance. I recorded using 2 TL's into my Mac using Logic X. There aren't any plugins used on the effected tracks with the exception of WOSIII. The IR used in those was from the Ownhammer Bogner Shiva 2X12 V3 mix collection. I used the Celestion G12-80 "SS-Studio Vintage" IR for both.
Feel free to download the raw WAVs and dump them into your DAW to see which works best for you.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1f53cp2vl969x ... d.wav?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zz446jegkjos ... d.wav?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ebbvaydoqns73 ... d.wav?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2v7eliolha2l ... d.wav?dl=0
The guitar being used is a Gibson SG on the bridge pickup into a Bogner Shiva 6L6. In each clip, I used only the 2nd channel with varying amounts of gain. The MV was set at around 11 o clock, and the presence at 0. The first segment was with the gain at about 1 o clock. The second segment was at around 9 o clock, and the last was at 3 o clock. Each of the 4 linked WAV files are the exact same performance. I recorded using 2 TL's into my Mac using Logic X. There aren't any plugins used on the effected tracks with the exception of WOSIII. The IR used in those was from the Ownhammer Bogner Shiva 2X12 V3 mix collection. I used the Celestion G12-80 "SS-Studio Vintage" IR for both.
Feel free to download the raw WAVs and dump them into your DAW to see which works best for you.
audiomidijace
New member
cpiquette":1udxcqph said:
THANK YOU!!!!!
I will play around with the raw files.
Just listening through my $99 Altec computer speakers, the power amp track sound MUCH better!
I think the difference is well worth the upgrade price.
Again, thank you so much for doing this.
angry pepper
Member
cpiquette":1x8kd62b said:
your guitar is a little bit out of tune..
angry pepper
Member
cpiquette":17xirul9 said:
OK .... got it
guillaume_pille
Active member
Thank you cpiquette,
What were the settings on the WoS III for the poweramp?
To be it lacks from low and low-mids on the power amp mod, where were the Depth and Presence?
What were the settings on the WoS III for the poweramp?
To be it lacks from low and low-mids on the power amp mod, where were the Depth and Presence?
This isn't a proper test I'm afraid for the simple reason that matching the control settings between the real tube power amp and modeled tube power amp means little.
You needed to match the tube power amp's and the tube power amp sim's frequency curves as much as possible with your "ears". The reason is that the control tapers are set by the NFB pot tapers and component tolerences in the physical tube power amp (and most every amp of a specific model is somewhat different due to component production tolerances), while the virtual tube power amp's virtual control tapers were set by programmer's choice.
You should repeat the test and do your best to match the physical tube power amp's sound with the virtual power amp's by ear. I'll bet that you'll have the virtual tube power amp's Presence control fairly high, and the Depth could be anywhere with 6L6's (from my experiences anyway).
The goal is to see how close they match, not how they sound with identical control settings etc.
Also, thanks for taking the time to do this cpiquette, it'smuch appreciated (I don't own a Torpedo with a load or I'd give it a go)!
You needed to match the tube power amp's and the tube power amp sim's frequency curves as much as possible with your "ears". The reason is that the control tapers are set by the NFB pot tapers and component tolerences in the physical tube power amp (and most every amp of a specific model is somewhat different due to component production tolerances), while the virtual tube power amp's virtual control tapers were set by programmer's choice.
You should repeat the test and do your best to match the physical tube power amp's sound with the virtual power amp's by ear. I'll bet that you'll have the virtual tube power amp's Presence control fairly high, and the Depth could be anywhere with 6L6's (from my experiences anyway).
The goal is to see how close they match, not how they sound with identical control settings etc.
Also, thanks for taking the time to do this cpiquette, it'smuch appreciated (I don't own a Torpedo with a load or I'd give it a go)!
cpiquette":1i0k6nyp said:
guillaume_pille
Active member
Ok that's exactly what I thought.
You power amp is build to match its preamp frequency response. That's not the case of the WoS which can't be identiacal as your actual poweramp.
Just play with presence and Depth and I predict you'll get much, much closer in a matter or minute(s).
You power amp is build to match its preamp frequency response. That's not the case of the WoS which can't be identiacal as your actual poweramp.
Just play with presence and Depth and I predict you'll get much, much closer in a matter or minute(s).
In real tube amps the typical Presence Control is normally implemented as a low-pass filter inside the global negative feedback loop. By decreasing the amount of negative high frequencies that are fed back, the high frequencies at the output of the amplifier are boosted. So, normally when one has the Presence control at "0" the sound is darker, and when they turn the Presence Control up the sound gets brighter as fewer "out-of-phase hi freqs" are fed back, so most tube amp users are used to adding highs when turning up their Presence Control, and adding lows when turning up their Depth Control.
The Two Notes Presence Control seems to add lows/low-mids when it's turned up which is why we like to start with it high. I'm used to it now but it did confuse me initially as well.
So cpiquette, I suggest that you start with the Two Notes Presence Control at maximum and adjust from there to get the low mids close to your real amp.
The Two Notes Depth Control works like a typical real tube amp's so I'd suggest starting with the Two Notes Depth Control at minimum and adjusting as needed for the lows.
The Two Notes Presence Control seems to add lows/low-mids when it's turned up which is why we like to start with it high. I'm used to it now but it did confuse me initially as well.
So cpiquette, I suggest that you start with the Two Notes Presence Control at maximum and adjust from there to get the low mids close to your real amp.
The Two Notes Depth Control works like a typical real tube amp's so I'd suggest starting with the Two Notes Depth Control at minimum and adjusting as needed for the lows.