Help me decide, CAB, LIVE or Studio

This is part question and part thinking out loud…
I’m considering either a CAB, LIVE or Studio to purchase. I would like to save a couple bucks and thinking about buying used (most likely that would be a CAB or Live as I have not seen many Studio’s come up used).

Most of the time, I would be using just a pre amp so technically, the CAB would be all I need and the cheapest option. But…
I would benefit from the form factor of a rack and S/PIDF to go into my DAW. Having a load option would be nice if I wanted to use one of my other amps. The Live would be perfect in this case.

Forgetting for a moment that recording dry and apply effects after is the best approach, let’s say in my ideal configuration, I would like to just eliminate the power amp and speakers from my rig and go directly out of my effects rack in stereo into the Studio then to the DAW via S/PDIF.

We’re talking a significant difference in cost to get from the basic needs to the most flexibility and sonic quality. I should also mention I use WOS III and get mediocre results at best but I haven’t tried any third party impulses or tailored the direct signal from the preamp to the DAW that the WOS is processing.

In thinking it through, using the CAB, I could just go from the preamp to the CAB to the effect processors in my rack and then stereo to the DAW. The downsides to that are an extra AD/DA conversion and the difference in sound of the effects being post power amp/speakers as opposed to pre (which might be better).

Same deal with the Live but I could go S/PDIF out the Live to S/PDIF in on my Eventide Eclipse then S/PDIF out of the Eclipse to the DAW. That wouldn’t be bad but not everything in my rack has digital I/O.

Then there’s the Studio… way more expensive but every option I would want and better sound overall. Financing at Sweetwater doesn’t sound too painful…

What would you do what would you recommend for me???

Thanks!

Well the cab is basically WOS III in hardwareform+ the possibility to use third party IRs, so if you are not happy with the results, then I'd personally first try getting good results before shelling out the money for a CAB. If you'd like to try third party IRs, Ownhammer is pretty popular.
Maybe try carving out some mids around 400-700 Hz, I find signals directly from a preamp too mid heavy. The poweramp - cab interaction boosts highs+lows, so maybe that's why you don't like the tones you're getting.
Of course if you use amps into a live or studio, that will be different.

I use tube preamps -> CAB for tube power amp sims -> Axe FX for post FX -> guitar cabs, or preamps -> CAB for tube power amp sims and cab sims -> Axe FX for post FX -> DI or FRFR. This is a common method (cabs before post FX while recording or with W/D/W rigs), but of course anything goes depending on what you prefer.

The CAB/LIVE are now being updated with a mono room sim/reverb, so I wouldn't be needing the Axe FX at tracking dates anymore when the guitar rack is mono unless additional FX are needed, or a stereo room sim (though often the room sim is added in the DAW etc).

I have most all of the Ownhammer and Redwirez IR's, and I use the Two Notes cabs 99% of the time unless there a specialty cab needed that Two Notes doesn't have. The new optional cabs from La Boutique are outstanding IMHO, and much faster to dial in via their real-time adjust-ability!

I tend to use the analog outs -> quality mic preamps for additional color as the additional <2ms of latency doesn't bother me seeing it's the same as standing 2' farther from your cab on stage etc.

The Studio can do two separate cabs at once, the CAB/LIVE just one. The CAB can deal with guitar level signals for pedalboard use (as well as Line Level signals), while the LIVE includes the load and D 1/O in 1U.

If you want 1U and you have tube amps then the LIVE (or Studio) should work best as they'll do anything you might want. If using tube preamps like I do then the CAB works nicely.

Not exactly, the CAB only does one cab at a time (the WOS III is unlimited I think?), and the CAB/LIVE lack the Vari-Phase and Overload DSP features.

slash57":1gjahsop said:

Well the cab is basically WOS III in hardware form

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hey djd100, I've read your posts on the subject on both HRI and the MTS forum. I'll mostly be using this with my M4 and I've even considered the CAB with a solid state power amp like the Matrix for a flexible light solution to replace a very heavy tube power amp similar to what you do. I've had the Matrix GT1000FX before and while it wasn't bad with the M4, it was really lacking the power amp coloring. That was a few years ago and even back then I thought a CAB would be a great choice.

I'm still not sure what I'll go with for my current needs but I feel like the Studio would be the only choice where I wouldn't have to make a compromise or at the least, not need to re-route my post pre-amp processors. Ideally, I just want to disconnect the two cables to my power amp and plug into the Studio direct to DAW. What I'm curious about is phase issues; will the Studio eliminate or emulate them? I can put a mic on each cabinet and capture my sound well enough but sorting phasing issues if I decide to pan the signals anyway other than hard left and right in DAW is a challenge at times.

Like slash57 said, I should at least try to get some results I'm happy with from the WOS. I have heard enough great sounding examples of all the Two Notes products that I'm fairly confidant I be able to get a good sound.

MarcoR":22jk5myx said:

hey djd100, I've read your posts on the subject on both HRI and the MTS forum. I'll mostly be using this with my M4 and I've even considered the CAB with a solid state power amp like the Matrix for a flexible light solution to replace a very heavy tube power amp similar to what you do. I've had the Matrix GT1000FX before and while it wasn't bad with the M4, it was really lacking the power amp coloring. That was a few years ago and even back then I thought a CAB would be a great choice.

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The Two Notes tube power amps work great IMO, and I don't miss the real deal tube power amps at all as they're heavy and SPL limited. Atypically the Two Notes push-pull tube power amps tend to work best with the Presence near max, Depth to suit (possibly excepting the 6L6's, but you can start at 100% and adjust as needed).

MarcoR":22jk5myx said:

I'm still not sure what I'll go with for my current needs but I feel like the Studio would be the only choice where I wouldn't have to make a compromise or at the least, not need to re-route my post pre-amp processors. Ideally, I just want to disconnect the two cables to my power amp and plug into the Studio direct to DAW. What I'm curious about is phase issues; will the Studio eliminate or emulate them? I can put a mic on each cabinet and capture my sound well enough but sorting phasing issues if I decide to pan the signals anyway other than hard left and right in DAW is a challenge at times.

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No problem as you can always adjust the two tracks phase in your DAW if need be (solo tracks and monitor in mono while adjusting their relative phasing and/or match up the waveforms). I don't have a Studio but I have used multiple cabs in WOS III without any issues which should be the same?

MarcoR":22jk5myx said:

Like slash57 said, I should at least try to get some results I'm happy with from the WOS. I have heard enough great sounding examples of all the Two Notes products that I'm fairly confidant I be able to get a good sound.

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The coming Arcade UI makes dialing tones easier than ever (first in CAB/LIVE)!

will the Studio eliminate or emulate them? I can put a mic on each cabinet and capture my sound well enough but sorting phasing issues if I decide to pan the signals anyway other than hard left and right in DAW is a challenge at times.

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We released last year I think a new firmware for all our product with an enhanced algorithm to ensure volume maximization (it is different from phase alignement, but it works better that way IMHO as that is what you are usually searching for in the studio). So you don't have to bother with the phase, and if you want to, there is what we call the Variphi parameter which lets you decide how "phase-canceled" you output signal will be.