Reamping issue - Dry/Wet monitoring - SOLVED!!!

Hi
I've been reamping my tube amp with the Reload.
Success so far: I can record a Dry track from the Reload's DI, then send that track through the Reload, amp, and back to the interface to record the re-amped Wet track. Results are great.

What I'm having trouble with is the fact that I can't achieve this any other way than outputting the dry track to Main Out (output 1 or 2). This means I'm always monitoring the dry signal, whereas I just want to monitor the wet signal before recording so I can audition some amp tones in real time.

The interface I'm using is a ULN-2d, so the output of the dry track (track 1) is meant to be routed to the Analog1 balanced output of the ULN-2d. In the interface mixer, I can correctly route it that way but in the DAW (Logic Pro) all other outputs except 1&2 (main monitor outs) are dead.

The analog1 out on the ULN-2d is Balanced, but the Reply in on Torpedo is TS. I'm using a TS cable for this operation. Could that be the culprit?

The fact that the re-amp record process works tells me that's not a problem, but again in Logic the issue is having the dry track output set to a Main out because all other outs are dead (so I'm always monitoring it unwillingly)

There's a couple to ways to do this,

The TRS to TS connection is not the issue.

What I'd do is use the input send/return and use a Y cable so that the send mults back to the return in the ULN-2 (to record the dry) and also to the relay input so that you can hear via your amp. You would then also have the option to record the loadbox output on ch2 or monitor at a controlled volume using the reload's amplifier set to an appropriate volume.

The other way is a bit more technical as it involves using both the MH MIO console and Logic. The ULN-2 has 2 main outs but in reality, there are a total of 14 outs...the main out, 8 ADAT, 2 SPDIF and 2 AES. These can also be assigned to the 2 monitor outs. You could assign in Logic your main stereo out to ADAT 1/2 and then assign in MIO the ADAT 1/2 to "Monitor Out" and then have the main out available as a send to Reload's "Replay" in. Your DI input needs to be outputting to the main out. If you are also recording the loadbox out, that channel must NOT be routed to this main out. Setting up MIO is not always easy (ULN-8 user here, been there).

There are 3 other ways to get around this.....

1) (Mac) set up an aggregate device with the ULN-2 and the internal audio as the devices. You can now use the mac headphone out as a send to replay or for better fidelity, while tracking, use the mac for monitor and the ULN'2 for re-amping.
2) get a spdif to analog box so that you have a pair of extra analog outs..... you can probably score this for under $100.
3) monitor in mono when re-amping so one side is the send to the replay and the other is your monitor in mono....once you're done re-recording, you can switch back to stereo for mixing

My vote is to use the "Y" cable insert method for tracking and get the MIO configured for re-amping

Thanks for those suggestions. When you say main outs of the ULN-2d do you mean Analog 1&2 outs?

Now let me see if I understand, along with a couple more questions...

Y-cable method: DI Output from Reload XLR to Y-1/4" going into both R1 & S1 on input 1 of the ULN-2d. What will the output of this dry track be set to (in Logic) such that it is removed from the monitoring path?

Other option: Assign Logic main outs to ADAT1/2, then in turn assign ADAT1/2 to "Monitor Out" leaving the main out available for the DI (dry) track. The loadbox out (wet signal) should then be routed to the Monitor L out (where my speaker is connected) in mono?


..thanks for your help.

I also don't quite know how to set the Logic main stereo outs to ADAT1/2, for instance which Outputs does it relate to in Logic?

Here are my MIO and Logic Pro windows.
where;
Input 1 = DI input = Analog1 input on ULN-2d
Output 3 = Analog1 Output on ULN-2d (via MIO Console)
Input 2 = Reload Loadbox
St Out = Output1/2 = ADAT1/2 (via MIO Console)

No signal coming on the ADAT1/2 channel strips so I obviously routed it incorrectly.






Does that help demonstrate what I could be doing wrong?

the "Y" cable connection needs to as follows:

the Reload DI plugs in to the input 1 XLR

The common of the Y cable (the bottom of the Y if you lay the cable on a table with the Y shape) plugs into the send

One of the remaining pair plugs into return (either one)

The other plugs into the Reload Replay line input

the Reload amp out goes to your amplifier's input

in MIO, on channel 1, you need to activate the insert where you select line/mic etc on the very top of the strip.

The challenge when using MIO and Logic is that the two softwares must be taking to each other and one cannot directly rename (afaik) all these ins and outs so that they are matched. (on can rename the channel strips, but not the actual paths, unlike PT for example)

On my ULN-8 the outs are sequential so after my 8 analog outs, the digital outs are sequential and then there's a break before I access the second ULN-8. I'm not sure how they set up the ULN-2, maybe ADAT 1 is MIO DAW3 and Logic out 3 or maybe it is DAW 11, Logic out 11. Is there a mapping chart either in the MIO docs or on the MH forum?

Analog should come first (we kinda know that already as it works) but then there may be the sdpif, aes or adat in some order tbd.

You could also just set up Logic to output many channels and then locate where it runs in MIO visually. To do this take your main channel (in Logic) and add effects sends to output 3-4, 5-6 etc and then set up in MIO channels with DAW3-4 etc you then, by the meters should be able to correlate which out in Logic corresponds to the MIO. Yo also have the flexibility to assign whichever of these outs to you monitor path.

Thanks for your patience in this.

1) Y-cable method,
By looping the dry signal to the Return, what does that do - does that remove it from the monitoring path?
Given the common of the cable goes from send, the only positional setup for this is to have the Reload and ULN-2d right next to each other since the Y-end needs to reach both the Return and the Replay line in, correct?

2) MIO routing method,
I always thought any output 1/2, 3/4, etc. set in Logic is equivalent to DAW 1/2, DAW 3/4, etc. in MIO Console, but will try the effects send trial/error when I'm home.
The issue I'm having is how to tell Logic that its main St Out should be assigned to ADAT1/2, which will then be assigned to Monitor L in MIO (through the Dir. Out insert??); and then send the Analog1 out (dry signal) to say Monitor R, and monitor the desired signal in mono (Monitor L).

Excuse me if I haven't grasped everything you've said so far, but it's been very helpful nonetheless and I'm determined to make this thing work!


The Y-cable method sounds OK, the only issue the Reload is located 3m away from the ULN-2d, so the Y-end of the cable won't have the meterage.

no worries, y cables are available in many lengths and configurations and you may need a 1/4" extension cable. The Hosa ones can actually be pulled apart as needed but they are the best quality imho. Redco is a great source for a custom cable.....I'd probably re-position or use a hosa to check out this method and if it works for you, then look at a better long term option

The y cable on the insert takes the DI input to the ULN-2 and splits it so that the signal goes back to the DAW (the return) and also goes back tot he Reload to feed your amp....which is the goal.

I have the ULN-8 and while I love the MH product, configuring the MIO is not my favourite thing, in fact I don't think it is very easy at all. ....I'm going to go boot up my system and answer further so that I don't give you some bad info from my failing memory (joking....sort of)

The question is which i/o is next after the Analog 1-2, it could be either the first ADAT pair, the Spdif or AES outs... so Logic out 3-4 could be ADAT 1-2 but it also could be that to get ADAT 1-2, Logic needs to output 7-8.... you can monitor this in the Console window (not the Mixer)

from the manual, pg 33:

"Select the ULN-2 as your audio interface; the analog inputs will be inputs 1-2, AES/Spdif digital inputs will be 3-4 and ADAT will be 5-12 (as determined by the FW channel assignments). Send your DAW’s signal to outputs 1/2 and it will come into the ULN-2 on DAW 1/2. By using the FW channels to send audio to your DAW and the DAW input returns from your computer you have a virtual patchbay to route audio between your DAW and the ULN-2."

This implies spdif and AES are in parallel and that ADAT 1-2 would correspond to DAW 5-6 which is Out 5-6 in Logic

fantastic - I will try this and report back.

Going back to the Y-cable, I've contacted Redco with my requirements, but in the meantime would this Hosa cable work as a solution:

http://hosatech.com/product/ypp-118/

Then use two more cables from those Female 1/4" jacks (one to Reply Line In and the other to ULN-2d Return)?

Would I then need to do anything fancy in MIO to tell channel 1 to output through its send? e.g. an Insert?

the input selection in MIO, top parameter should be MIC S/R ie mic input with send return active

Tha cable (adapter) will work, what won't work is an insert cable (TRS to 2x TS)

Metric Halo said this about the channel send/return:

"The send is only useable while using the analog input to track directly. When the source is a dry pre-recorded track coming from the analog output, the send is not useable.

SOLVED!

Would you believe the ONLY thing that I was neglecting to do was to Solo the Main Stereo Out in MIO Console. That's it.

I even tried muting the dry signal output - nope, didn't work. But solo'ing the wet signal coming through the main stereo out did the trick.

Gear.

While we're on the topic, I bought the Hosa Y-cable (even though I don't need it, for the moment); what is meant by the labels 'ring' and 'tip' on the female Y ends?

that would be an insert cable, the TRS jack has a tip and a ring so they indicate which connector corresponds to the contacts on the TRS jack. It's a good accessory to have handy. A Y cable would be connected differently.

Glad to hear you have it working

So one end is for a TRS cable while the other is for a TS cable?

(by the way, thanks for your entire help the last few days)