Flabby overdriven guitar when strummed? Am I set up right?

sgib

New member
I can't get a good clean tone with the Two Notes Torpedo Live no matter how I set it. There is always a flabby overdriven sound when I strum the guitar no matter how I set 3 different amps or the Torpedo. Running amp's speaker out to Torpedo's 8 ohm input. Power section off. Torpedo's input set low so no clipping but it sounds like clipping. Is there something I'm missing here to get an actual clean tone?
 
sgib would you have the possibility to do a miking of a real cabinet while keeping the same gain and volume settings on your (amp(s)?

When miking, sometimes, you can hear more distortion than what you hear by just standing next to the cabinet. Especially if you push the master volume of the amp.
 
sgib":1ugd7h6i said:
I can't get a good clean tone with the Two Notes Torpedo Live no matter how I set it. There is always a flabby overdriven sound when I strum the guitar no matter how I set 3 different amps or the Torpedo. Running amp's speaker out to Torpedo's 8 ohm input. Power section off. Torpedo's input set low so no clipping but it sounds like clipping. Is there something I'm missing here to get an actual clean tone?

I have the exact same problem. I only had the Torpedo Live for a few days now, so I partially blamed it on me doing something wrong (which I really hope I do).

I am running out from the 8 ohm speaker output from my Orange TH30 Combo into the Torpedo Live. I don't have a miced sample of the TH30c, but its cleans are very clean, even at higher volume, through its own cab.

To be able to get a somewhat clean sound through the Torpedo, I need to set the amps channel volume in between 0 and 1, and set the Torpedo input to very low. This of course gives a very dull and undynamic sound as the amp is set so low, but if I go higher than 1 on the clean channel, there's a surely a distortion / clipping / fizz on the tone. :-(

On the distortion channel, I can also hear some kind of high end fizzing and clipping that I feel sounds a bit too digital to be coming from the tube amp - don't know if it's caused by the same problem, but could be, since the cleans have a hard time staying clean.
It helps a bit if the Torpedos input is lowered to lowest possible, but it is still present.

I also have the power section off, and spent a lot of time tweaking in Remote. I have Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones plugged into Torpedo Live for monitoring.

sgib: I don't want to hijack your thread, but it seems we are experiencing the same problem.
 
guillaume_pille":18q0j77m said:
sgib would you have the possibility to do a miking of a real cabinet while keeping the same gain and volume settings on your (amp(s)?

When miking, sometimes, you can hear more distortion than what you hear by just standing next to the cabinet. Especially if you push the master volume of the amp.
Sure, I can record some examples soon.

timster666":18q0j77m said:
sgib":18q0j77m said:
I can't get a good clean tone with the Two Notes Torpedo Live no matter how I set it. There is always a flabby overdriven sound when I strum the guitar no matter how I set 3 different amps or the Torpedo. Running amp's speaker out to Torpedo's 8 ohm input. Power section off. Torpedo's input set low so no clipping but it sounds like clipping. Is there something I'm missing here to get an actual clean tone?

I have the exact same problem. I only had the Torpedo Live for a few days now, so I partially blamed it on me doing something wrong (which I really hope I do).

I am running out from the 8 ohm speaker output from my Orange TH30 Combo into the Torpedo Live. I don't have a miced sample of the TH30c, but its cleans are very clean, even at higher volume, through its own cab.

To be able to get a somewhat clean sound through the Torpedo, I need to set the amps channel volume in between 0 and 1, and set the Torpedo input to very low. This of course gives a very dull and undynamic sound as the amp is set so low, but if I go higher than 1 on the clean channel, there's a surely a distortion / clipping / fizz on the tone. :-(

On the distortion channel, I can also hear some kind of high end fizzing and clipping that I feel sounds a bit too digital to be coming from the tube amp - don't know if it's caused by the same problem, but could be, since the cleans have a hard time staying clean.
It helps a bit if the Torpedos input is lowered to lowest possible, but it is still present.

I also have the power section off, and spent a lot of time tweaking in Remote. I have Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones plugged into Torpedo Live for monitoring.

sgib: I don't want to hijack your thread, but it seems we are experiencing the same problem.
I'm running the same setup, same headphones, no power section, Twin Reverb around 3. It's like a crackle or fizz on any cleans.
 
Gentlemen, don't worry, it's possible to play clean AND at high volume with a Live, just post some audio clips so I can understand what we are dealing with. ;)
 
Are you guys clipping your audio interface/daw/monitor inputs?

The LIVE's output should be Line Level, so you might need to pad your interface inputs?
 
I've tried my friends TH30 head on Live, no issues with clean sounds, even cranked, gorgeous sparkling cleans. We did it over PA though, but clipping was not present at all.
 
djd100":2qukrcqn said:
Are you guys clipping your audio interface/daw/monitor inputs?

The LIVE's output should be Line Level, so you might need to pad your interface inputs?

I am monitoring directly from the Torpedo live with Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones, and even if I turn down the Output, the clipping/distortion is still there. :-(
 
TTerror":1bara1zg said:
I've tried my friends TH30 head on Live, no issues with clean sounds, even cranked, gorgeous sparkling cleans. We did it over PA though, but clipping was not present at all.

Ok, thanks for the info, gives me hope ;-)

I have been considering if there is something wrong with my amp (or just that the TH30 is known to be very loud) or the guitars output is too hot, but it kinda makes no sense, as the sound is crisp and clear when playing through the amps own cabinet, even at higher volume.

I will go try the Torpedo out with other amps this weekend, to see if the problem persists.
 
Can the cable between the amp and the Torpedo Live be an issue?

I am using a quite new speaker cable between them now, though...
 
sgib":1facss6i said:
guillaume_pille":1facss6i said:
sgib would you have the possibility to do a miking of a real cabinet while keeping the same gain and volume settings on your (amp(s)?

When miking, sometimes, you can hear more distortion than what you hear by just standing next to the cabinet. Especially if you push the master volume of the amp.
Sure, I can record some examples soon.

timster666":1facss6i said:
sgib":1facss6i said:
I can't get a good clean tone with the Two Notes Torpedo Live no matter how I set it. There is always a flabby overdriven sound when I strum the guitar no matter how I set 3 different amps or the Torpedo. Running amp's speaker out to Torpedo's 8 ohm input. Power section off. Torpedo's input set low so no clipping but it sounds like clipping. Is there something I'm missing here to get an actual clean tone?

I have the exact same problem. I only had the Torpedo Live for a few days now, so I partially blamed it on me doing something wrong (which I really hope I do).

I am running out from the 8 ohm speaker output from my Orange TH30 Combo into the Torpedo Live. I don't have a miced sample of the TH30c, but its cleans are very clean, even at higher volume, through its own cab.

To be able to get a somewhat clean sound through the Torpedo, I need to set the amps channel volume in between 0 and 1, and set the Torpedo input to very low. This of course gives a very dull and undynamic sound as the amp is set so low, but if I go higher than 1 on the clean channel, there's a surely a distortion / clipping / fizz on the tone. :-(

On the distortion channel, I can also hear some kind of high end fizzing and clipping that I feel sounds a bit too digital to be coming from the tube amp - don't know if it's caused by the same problem, but could be, since the cleans have a hard time staying clean.
It helps a bit if the Torpedos input is lowered to lowest possible, but it is still present.

I also have the power section off, and spent a lot of time tweaking in Remote. I have Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones plugged into Torpedo Live for monitoring.

sgib: I don't want to hijack your thread, but it seems we are experiencing the same problem.
I'm running the same setup, same headphones, no power section, Twin Reverb around 3. It's like a crackle or fizz on any cleans.

Hi Gents,

I have the exact same issue running my Mesa Boogie MKV25 through my Torpedo Studio with all guitars (buckers & single coils) on the MKV25 channel one clean modes. To be honest, I have given up on it as I don't play super clean that often anyway and I can get pretty good clean tones just by turning my guitar volume knob down on the crunch mode and lead channel. The MKV25 is such an awesome amp! But, at the same volume and gain settings running through my traditional 4X12 cab it is super-clean and I can't get it to distort at all on the MKV25's clean modes.
 
ToneChaser1":1ude3dk3 said:
Hi Gents,

I have the exact same issue running my Mesa Boogie MKV25 through my Torpedo Studio with all guitars (buckers & single coils) on the MKV25 channel one clean modes. To be honest, I have given up on it as I don't play super clean that often anyway and I can get pretty good clean tones just by turning my guitar volume knob down on the crunch mode and lead channel. The MKV25 is such an awesome amp! But, at the same volume and gain settings running through my traditional 4X12 cab it is super-clean and I can't get it to distort at all on the MKV25's clean modes.

Sorry to hear that you have the same trouble, but at least you are not alone apparently ;-)

I decided to try and adjust my pickup height and lowering it drastically in order to test if the guitars output is to hot, but it is exactly the same dirty fizzy tone on what is supposed to be very clean.

I really hope to get help or find a solution for this very soon. :-(
 
Dear all,

as I told you previously, we need some sound samples to get an idea of what you're hearing. Usually it's enough to determine or at least get an idea of where to search for this issue. ;)

Comparing what you experience with a miking of your cabinet can give us another very important information regarding how you amp sounds "in the real world".
 
I have been dealing with the exact same issue for months.
Seems that there is always the same answer from Two Notes with little or no real help.

I have several high end amps and they all do the same thing. Fizzy highs unless I turn the guitar volume down or the amp master volume down to 1 or two. I have listened to the amp through the speaker and no fizzy distortion. I have connected the amp through a Suhr reactive load, no fizzy problem. I listened through the Studio head phone out and its fizzy.

Took me a lot of time to figure out what is going on. TN alludes to this but I believe that they need to formally address this issue in a detailed, concise and unambiguous manner. The manual is not the best written piece I have read, and could certainly be updated and expanded.

As TN says, the clean channel of most amps does generate distortion. It's there even if you don't hear it through a cab. The instinct is to turn the amp volume up to hit that "sweet spot". Don't do it! If you want cleans you need several things to come together.

1. Keep the master volume down, keep the preamp gain down, keep the Studio or line input level to somewhere around -12db and don't allow the output volume to clip.

2. Keep your guitar volume just below full or 10 or whatever you use as a guide. For some reason, a couple of my instruments will exacerbate the clipping if the pickups are hot.

3. Keep your mid and especially the treble controls fairly flat. When the mid and treble controls are increased the amps harmonic distortion becomes more audible.

4. Start with an amp that is capable of producing stellar cleans.

5. Adjust the mic distance if using the TN cabs. Otherwise, you are dependent on the IR.

6. Make sure your mix is at 100% wet. Dry will be the unfiltered tone and sound like poo.

7. Keep the Eq, and Compressor settings reasonable.

8. If using digital in/out make sure your interface and Live/Studio are sat the same sync frequency, 44.1, 48, 96, whatever.

So, to reiterate, DO NOT adjust the amp as you would using a speaker cabinet. Keep the master volume and preamp volume/gain down and adjust the input gain from the TN Live or studio to get the proper gain. OnceI figured out the Master Volume and Preamp Gain can not be as high as through my speaker cabinets, I was able to get great clean tones.

What really is annoying is when I am told "We have PRO's and Studios who use our units daily and are getting great sounds" or "As I Told You". Really?, that's cool but you have people who need help. TN is seems to be great at creating new products, I think a bit more help for those in need would go a long way.

Uncle Mike
(Formerly of Rock and Roll Fame)
 
Hi Mike,

thank you for your feedback that will help some beginners for sure. If you are OK, I could make that an article for our Help Desk?

Our way to determine if a product is broken or not is to get the user to do a "traditional" miking of his cabinet while keeping the same level/gain on the amp.

Without that information, we can always ask to lower the gain/volume on the amp but, really, this shouldn't be necessary. For example, if I could hear the fizziness you talk about I would probably able to identify it and figure out if something is going wrong in your system, and where the gain/level should be adjusted.
 
guillaume_pille":49z8z477 said:
Hi Mike,

thank you for your feedback that will help some beginners for sure. If you are OK, I could make that an article for our Help Desk?

Without that information, we can always ask to lower the gain/volume on the amp but, really, this shouldn't be necessary. For example, if I could hear the fizziness you talk about I would probably able to identify it and figure out if something is going wrong in your system, and where the gain/level should be adjusted.

G.

You may certainly use what I wrote and edit it where needed.

Not everyone has the ability or gear to mic a cab and sent you a comparison. For example, I use the TN Studio in my recording studio (which is in a high rise condo building) and keep my cabs at our practice/prep facility. I do use excellent mics for acoustic recording but without a cab the comparison you ask for is difficult.

I also don't believe that it is just "Beginners" having these issues. An good explanation of what causes the fizz would be helpful for all since may people who have only ever played through a guitar cab probably never heard the fizz.

All amps and speakers have fizz. The guitar cabs roll off the highs and mask the fizz. I think that with the digital age, we are hearing things we never heard before. Judicious use of EQ will get rid of the fizz. If TN wrote a FAQ that really addressed this issue in detail and how to adjust and EQ the guitar, amp and Two Notes units for great cleans, there might be a lot less heartburn going around.

The demos that Cyril Tarquiny did using the Studio and Two Rock Crystal are amazing. Using a Crystal, I easily got fizz until I learned how to EQ the Torpedo and roll off some highs.

Thanks

Uncle Mike
 
I'm 100% with you Mike on this, and I am fully aware that not everybody can do a recording with a cabinet, it's usually why they have a Torpedo. ;)

It just helps us to figure out the kind of experience a user has with traditional recording, so we can adapt. Someone who never did any may need help with trivial things such as setting up the gain on the unit, or SPDIF sync. There are so many things that can go wrong. But when we tell a skilled sound engineer he'd better setup his gains properly he can become very agressive, feeling like we talk to him like we would do to a beginner ha ha.

Anyway, here is the article I built around your remarks:

http://support.two-notes.com/knowledgebase.php?article=294&suggest=1
 
I wanted to resurrect this post and offer a bit more information......

A friend called me regarding the same issues cited in this and other discussions. He purchased a Two Notes Studio and was getting horrible clipping from his amp. He asked me to come to his studio and assist with setup and gain staging.

After working on his Studio, I realized something that had alluded me in the past. That is, the adjustment of input gain vs gain boost. Early on, when i was having issues I failed to completely understand the relationship between these two adjustments and this is what caused me such heartburn.

With that in mind, the following procedure fixed my buddies clipping issues and allows him to get incredible sparking cleans and amazing OD tones.

1. Adjust your amp using a the speaker cabinet for the amps sweet spot. There are many discussions on how to do this, but basically each control is adjusted with not guitar plugged in and the volume up high enough to hear the electronics noise. Each control is raised from 0 until you hear a change is the noise floor.

2. Connect the TN Studio and set the Input Boost to 0 db.

3. Adjust the Input Gain for a low level reading where there is no clipping from the amp. This may seem very low, could be -24 db or lower. Don't worry if you can't get a decent level on your monitors through the DAW or Interface.

4. Adjust the Output gain to bring the level up to -12db. The output LED's should remain in the green but may touch the first orange LED from time to time for a max of -9 db.

5. Adjust the Input Boost as needed to get your levels up to a reasonable level through your Interface/Daw and Monitors.

6. Adjust the EQ. I found that the following settings eliminated any residual clipping....

360 Hz - 3 db
800 Hz + 2 db
2 kHz + 3db


Using this procedure, some fine tuning may be necessary, but your amp should produce amazing cleans with the preamp gain master volume gain set where you like them with a speaker cabinet.

I have seen a number of folks not understand the difference between and how to adjust the iInput Gain vs the Input Boost.
The manual setup procedure is extremely basic and does not tell the whole story.

My recommendation is for Two Notes to rewrite this section in more detail. I believe doing so will help a lot of first time Studio users. It is imperative that users understand the relationship of the Input Gain vs the Input Boost vs the Output Gain.

In my case with a 100 watt Two Rock and a 50 Watt Germino, I need to run the Input way down around -36 db. Otherwise I get clipping and my clean tones really suck.
The TN Studio is an amazing tool, but I found that the manual isn't very helpful for the initial setup and has caused a significant amount of heartburn.

Good luck and make great music.

Uncle Mike
 
Back
Top