Rig-Talk

Guitars, Gear, Tone!
It is currently Fri, Jun 22, 2018 2:27am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 29, 2017 8:25am 
Offline
Hack

Joined: Wed, Nov 29, 2017 8:09am
Posts: 4
Are you human?: 951
I'm trying to achieve a practice setup that is superior to my Vox Valvetronix modeler. Ideally, I'm looking for Van Halen and GnR type tones. I'm not recording. I just want to jam with a "real amp" if possible. This is "in a house by myself" volume. So it's in between "quiet" and "with a drummer."

Here's my setup:
USA Hamers >> Suhr SL68 >> Suhr Loadbox >> **C.A.B. >> TC HoF Reverb >> Behringer Mixer >> KRK Rokit 6's


**Note: The C.A.B. is set to accept a line-level input and produce a line-level output.

The problem is that this sounds like total junk to my ears. Only two of the C.A.B. presets are usable (Slash Cab w. V30s and H&K cab with Greenbacks). Even with those though, my tone sounds like it's coming from a cab in the next room.

I've tried EQ'ing it but I end up dropping the low end (120) and high-end (6k) way down while cranking the mids (800). And it still sounds like cardboard--totally flat, dull and lifeless. Something's gotta be off here.


So are the stock IRs just really bad?
Or are the KRK Rokits just awful?

Any ideas?

Many thanks!
-Greg


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 29, 2017 3:40pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Wanker
User avatar

Joined: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 3:43am
Posts: 1787
Location: France
Are you human?: 951
Hi Greg,

do you think you could share some sound samples with us, and if you once had the opportunity to make a good "real" micing of your setup that would make for a good comparison.


Thanks!

_________________
Affiliation: President @ OROSYS SAS, owner of Two Notes Audio Engineering

Creating pro audio product for the guitar and bass players:
Website : Two Notes Audio Engineering
Follow us on Youtube and Facebook
Two Notes samples on Soundcloud

For the best support, please check the FAQ and create a ticket on the Two Notes Help Desk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 29, 2017 11:22pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee

Joined: Sun, Feb 15, 2009 1:29pm
Posts: 339
The problem is that no preset will match your setup, i.e. you have to manually pick a cab, select a mic, then position the mic where it sounds good, config the room sim/reverb (try Studio B first IMO!), then possibly add a little EQ if needed, just like you would in the real world (then the reverb).

Note that the Suhr Reactive Load is voiced like a Greenback 4 X 12 cab Impedance Curve-wise, so I'd suggest starting with one of those (I prefer the Capture Masters Fried25, Brit1935, BritGreen, or BoGreen most often for Marshall'ish tones).

Good luck...

Funny, this EQ curve you mentioned is guaranteed to make anything sound like cardboard, dropping the low end (120) and high-end (6k) way down while cranking the mids (800)"!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 30, 2017 4:21pm 
Offline
Hack

Joined: Fri, Jan 23, 2015 12:48am
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles
Are you human?: 951
Hi Greg,

First thing you should do is spend a good deal of time learning the difference between instrument level and line level signals. Second you should learn the difference between balanced and unbalanced connections. Are you using a regular guitar cable to connect the output of your Suhr to the Loadbox? You should use a speaker cable.


The TC HOF Reverb expects an instrument level signal like your guitar. The output of the CAB is way too hot, its a line level signal and balanced. So Plug your guitar into the Hof and then to the Suhr.

Your setup will work, but you have so many variables to juggle its crazy. You have to set the Reverb pedal, set the Suhr, SL68, set the Reactive Load DI level, then you have to setup the CAB as djd100 suggested, and then setup the mixer appropriately by selecting a line level input, & then adjusting the gain on the mixer for an appropriate level into the mixer, and then setup the KRKs. (Notice the KRKs give you a choice of balanced or unbalanced connections).

If all you want to do is play your Suhr through the KRKs, then there is no need for the mixer. Plug the CAB directly into one of the KRKs. Done.

The Suhr is outstanding, the CAB is outstanding. They sound incredible. Unless something is broken, the problem is not the equipment. The problem is your setup. What you have is NOT plug & play. There is a lot of setup to do first, and you must go through each part one at a time. Using Torpedo Remote software, check the levels into and out of the CAB to make sure you are getting a good healthy level but not clipping.

Oh and realize that if you start changing the volume and the gain on the amp, you might have to make adjustments in one or all of the other devices.

If it were me, I wouldn't bother with all of this stuff. Get an attenuator and plug it in between a speaker cabinet and the amp. Done and you can crank up the amp.

Hmmmmm, who sells kick ass attenuators like the Torpedo Captor. Oh yeah.....Two Notes!

_________________
www.williamrustrum.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Dec 06, 2017 9:49am 
Offline
Hack

Joined: Wed, Nov 29, 2017 8:09am
Posts: 4
Are you human?: 951
cycosuicide wrote:
Are you using a regular guitar cable to connect the output of your Suhr to the Loadbox? You should use a speaker cable.

Check.

cycosuicide wrote:
The TC HOF Reverb expects an instrument level signal like your guitar. The output of the CAB is way too hot, its a line level signal and balanced. So Plug your guitar into the Hof and then to the Suhr.

Good point. I'll try this, first.

cycosuicide wrote:
Your setup will work, but you have so many variables to juggle its crazy.

Well, yes and no. There are a few elements in the chain but truthfully, none are that complex. A plexi is not hard to EQ, the Reactive Load has 1 knob so it's easy to keep within a workable range, there aren't that many parameters in the Torpedo...I've selected the most predictable things: closed back cabs (Greenbacks and V30s) with the SM-57 mic pretty much right on the speaker...that's the same place anyone would start, right?

cycosuicide wrote:
If all you want to do is play your Suhr through the KRKs, then there is no need for the mixer. Plug the CAB directly into one of the KRKs. Done.

Tried that initially, actually, because I didn't have a way to split the signal to two different monitors. I don't recall it sounding much different, so I don't think the small mixer is changing anything. It's set to be as neutral as possible.

cycosuicide wrote:
If it were me, I wouldn't bother with all of this stuff. Get an attenuator and plug it in between a speaker cabinet and the amp. Done and you can crank up the amp.

Well, the whole point was to move towards a volume-friendly rig via Impulse Response so as not to lose the vibe of a real speaker cab. That could work as a live rig though. I could imagine grabbing a clean power amp for that classic EVH-style re-amping thing:

Guitar >> SL68 >> Loadbox >> Power Amp >> Cabinet


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 07, 2017 7:10am 
Offline
Apprentice NOOB

Joined: Wed, Nov 30, 2016 12:42am
Posts: 53
Are you human?: 951
Just to give a note about HOF and signal levels, it works on both instrument and line levels without any issues. TC pedals do this always, delay, reverb, Mimiq...they all work normal with both signal levels.

I used HOF for long time after my Torpedo Live unit, and it sounds awesome since it is after all gain stages as it should be.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 07, 2017 10:42pm 
Offline
Hack

Joined: Fri, Jan 23, 2015 12:48am
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles
Are you human?: 951
cycosuicide wrote:
Your setup will work, but you have so many variables to juggle its crazy.

Well, yes and no. There are a few elements in the chain but truthfully, none are that complex. A plexi is not hard to EQ, the Reactive Load has 1 knob so it's easy to keep within a workable range, there aren't that many parameters in the Torpedo...I've selected the most predictable things: closed back cabs (Greenbacks and V30s) with the SM-57 mic pretty much right on the speaker...that's the same place anyone would start, right?

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear, I was mainly talking about gain staging. EQ, speaker, and mics don't matter til you take care of gain staging. For example, the higher you turn up the volume on your Suhr, the lower you should turn down the Load. But then you have to balance that with the input of the CAB. You need to adjust it so you get a good healthy signal in there and its not clipping. Then you have to look at the output of the CAB. And you have a Preset knob to adjust, and an Output knob to adjust. Again you want a good output level that's not clipping. Did you notice I didn't mention anything about the Cabinet types, speaker types, or Amp EQ. This is pure Gain Staging and will make or break your sound. And we still have to properly gain stage the mixer and the KRK

cycosuicide wrote:
If all you want to do is play your Suhr through the KRKs, then there is no need for the mixer. Plug the CAB directly into one of the KRKs. Done.

Tried that initially, actually, because I didn't have a way to split the signal to two different monitors. I don't recall it sounding much different, so I don't think the small mixer is changing anything. It's set to be as neutral as possible.

Again you have so many variables, you need to get rid of as much as possible and start from the beginning. A better idea is to connect a speaker cab to your Load and listen & adjust the amp til you get the sound you want. Then use the CAB, but plug in headphones. If it doesn't sound good, you know its something with the CAB. If it sounds good to you, plug in the KRK. Sounds bad? Its the KRK. Sounds good? Insert the mixer. Sounds good? YAY! Sounds bad, its the mixer

cycosuicide wrote:
If it were me, I wouldn't bother with all of this stuff. Get an attenuator and plug it in between a speaker cabinet and the amp. Done and you can crank up the amp.

Well, the whole point was to move towards a volume-friendly rig via Impulse Response so as not to lose the vibe of a real speaker cab. That could work as a live rig though. I could imagine grabbing a clean power amp for that classic EVH-style re-amping thing:

Guitar >> SL68 >> Loadbox >> Power Amp >> Cabinet[/quote]

Yeah I understand, as I use the Torpedo Live for recording and to do some testing of Sound FX. But I already have my amp dialed in first with the speaker cabinet and an attenuator. I like the sound, and I just switch the Amp's speaker output to the Torpedo Live. It'll sound a little different of course, but its in the ball park.

Ultimately I feel your issue is with Gain Structure. Proper gain structure is a step by step process. I highly recommend you get rid of as many variables as possible and adjust the input & output gains one by one. This is problem solving 101. Otherwise you are chasing your tail, and I'd hate to have you get rid of that kickass CAB because you think it might be faulty. Its probably not.

_________________
www.williamrustrum.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group - Terms of Use