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PostPosted: Mon, Mar 19, 2018 10:23pm 
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Rock God

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I've been using WOS for a long time. I'm considering picking up a CAB to keep the DAW from doing so much work in hopes that this feels a little more connected to the experience.

I know you can only use one cabinet in CAB, with a two mic feature coming soon, but what features are the same between the two outside of that? Are all the effects the same with the same control?

Also, I have an issue rendering a 3rd party IR from Reaper using WOS as the IR loader. It doesn't sound the same when rendered to a file as what's in the DAW. It's not nearly as good, so I've used another plug in for 3rd party IRs. I'm sure it's just my setup not working correctly, like Repear\VST\DAW conflict of some sort.

Has any experienced 3rd party IRs not sounding right from the CAB?


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PostPosted: Tue, Mar 20, 2018 2:35pm 
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Hmmm. Just read there's a software revamp coming up.

Curious how this new software sound compares to the old. I always thought the old ones had something in the mids that kind of pushed back in the tone. The difference in a 3rd party IR and a similar TN cab would demonstrate this.

Does the new update change the sound at all?

Also, is the update good for existing CAB units? Is there a hardware upgrade for the CAB coming out anytime this year that helps take advantage of the software rewrite?


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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 21, 2018 10:27am 
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Plank Cranker Wanker
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Hi Rogue,

I don't really know what is wrong with your WoS, do you have the latest WoS V4? CAB does not have the same amount of parameters, actually less than WoS, some people prefer one or the other option.

Quote:
The difference in a 3rd party IR and a similar TN cab would demonstrate this.


We have more than 200 virtual cabinets in the library, is it something you notice instantly, whatever model you listen to?

How do you pickup a "similar TN Cab to your IR, as many parameters will obviously be different, such ads the real mic placement, the room, the mic preamp...

Quote:
Does the new update change the sound at all?

Also, is the update good for existing CAB units? Is there a hardware upgrade for the CAB coming out anytime this year that helps take advantage of the software rewrite?


There is no major change in the algorithm itself, just some code that was rewrote to adapt for processing several mics at once.

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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 21, 2018 1:05pm 
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Rock God

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guillaume_pille wrote:
Hi Rogue,

I don't really know what is wrong with your WoS, do you have the latest WoS V4? CAB does not have the same amount of parameters, actually less than WoS, some people prefer one or the other option.


Thanks Guillaume. I might be a few updates behind on WOS. I'll check tonight. I'm guessing the weird thing where it renders a file differently than what plays back in the DAW for 3rd party IRs is some parameter I don't have setup correctly in Reaper. I'll also add that they were the Celestion 500 ms IRs, which I know WOS truncates, just adding that information. I haven't checked if it does that same thing with others. It works fine with Two Notes cabs.


guillaume_pille wrote:
We have more than 200 virtual cabinets in the library, is it something you notice instantly, whatever model you listen to?

How do you pickup a "similar TN Cab to your IR, as many parameters will obviously be different, such ads the real mic placement, the room, the mic preamp...

It's something I've always noticed. I've played with the EQ and haven't found the right tweaks to bring those upper mids forward like I want, but it makes it better.

Here's a comparison of a few cab sim methods (not mine)...

https://soundcloud.com/anttipesonen/test-ox-vs-irv3-bounce

1st is the OX Amp Top Box
2nd is WOS with Friedman 25
3rd is WOS with GreenTri
4th is WOS with a 3rd Party IR
5th is Guitar Rig
6th is Revalver

All were cabinets with greenback type speaker, 57 and 121 mics with 121 turned down about 6db (where controllable), and the load was all done by the OX. It's about as apples to apples as you can get.

The two Two Notes cabs compared to the IR (or even the others) have the upper mids not as present and forward sounding. This has been my experience since the beginning.

I think the TN cabs has a more organic sound, but they don't sit as forward in the mix as others. I've just accepted this is way TN sounds compared to others. There isn't any one perfect method, IMO.

guillaume_pille wrote:
There is no major change in the algorithm itself, just some code that was rewrote to adapt for processing several mics at once.
Good to know.

Another question. On your facebook you mention a "stand alone WOS" as a potential future product? What do you mean by this? Like a CAB but fully capable of WOS functionality?


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PostPosted: Mon, Mar 26, 2018 3:00am 
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OK, where does that test that come from? The Gear page, Gearslutz?

Quote:
It's about as apples to apples as you can get


Well, not really. When you notice how much the whole signal chain in capturing an IR is important, you know it's nearly impossible to do that kind of A/B test. I mean, check the various cabinets with V30 or Greenbacks or whatever similar speakers, you'll see pretty fast that they are VERY different.

I would totally agree that the cabinets that TN captured in the past have similarities, because same preamps and same studio room, but the Capture Masters ones are way different.

We will release in a near future a signature pack with a famous amp brand, their studio/preamps sounds great and you can't even compare their cabinets with the supposedly similar ones that the Capture Masters or TN captured.

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Creating pro audio product for the guitar and bass players:
Website : Two Notes Audio Engineering
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Two Notes samples on Soundcloud

For the best support, please check the FAQ and create a ticket on the Two Notes Help Desk


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PostPosted: Mon, Mar 26, 2018 8:17pm 
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Hack

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All three WoS clips sound dreadful, absolutely not representative of what is possible with the product.


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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 28, 2018 4:54pm 
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Rock God

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guillaume_pille wrote:
OK, where does that test that come from? The Gear page, Gearslutz?
It was a guy on TGP that was demonstrating the OX speaker sims to various other sims.



guillaume_pille wrote:
Well, not really. When you notice how much the whole signal chain in capturing an IR is important, you know it's nearly impossible to do that kind of A/B test. I mean, check the various cabinets with V30 or Greenbacks or whatever similar speakers, you'll see pretty fast that they are VERY different.
Sure, there are different cabs and they all sound different, but the methodology was as apples to apples as you can get. Same loadbox. Same speaker and mic type.

Ultimately though, that's the way TN cabs sounds to me when compared to 3rd party IRs. I've even tried to blend in the Two Notes 1x12 cab to punch the mids up. Works okay, but not the same.

Still, I tend to stay with TN because even though the 3rd party IRs have a more forward mids, they have a strange sound I don't like.

guillaume_pille wrote:
I would totally agree that the cabinets that TN captured in the past have similarities, because same preamps and same studio room, but the Capture Masters ones are way different.
My go to is the BritGreen.

guillaume_pille wrote:
We will release in a near future a signature pack with a famous amp brand, their studio/preamps sounds great and you can't even compare their cabinets with the supposedly similar ones that the Capture Masters or TN captured.
Looking forward to it. Got an ETA?


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PostPosted: Thu, Mar 29, 2018 11:39am 
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Quote:
Ultimately though, that's the way TN cabs sounds to me when compared to 3rd party IRs. I've even tried to blend in the Two Notes 1x12 cab to punch the mids up. Works okay, but not the same.


So for you the whole 210 cabinets library, from different studios and everything, got the same sound signature somehow. that's odd.

Like if you had just one file to share, from a 3rd party, that's typical of what you say any cabinets in the TN library can't match, i'd be interested in trying it.

Quote:
Looking forward to it. Got an ETA?


i'd like to have one myself. Let's aim at Musikmesse. ^^

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Creating pro audio product for the guitar and bass players:
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Two Notes samples on Soundcloud

For the best support, please check the FAQ and create a ticket on the Two Notes Help Desk


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PostPosted: Fri, Mar 30, 2018 10:24am 
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Rock God

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guillaume_pille wrote:

So for you the whole 210 cabinets library, from different studios and everything, got the same sound signature somehow. that's odd.

Like if you had just one file to share, from a 3rd party, that's typical of what you say any cabinets in the TN library can't match, i'd be interested in trying it.

I can't say all of them, just the ones I've tried, of which I have a pretty decent library. Particularly of the greenback variety.

You can compare any of the TN's GB cabs to just about any mainstream GB 3rd Party IR. Try the Celestion GB 412, as that's what I'm using for 3rd Party these days. Keep it simple and just use a 57, no EQ or anything. Just straight up IR to IR comparison.

If you cannot detect a difference, then something is wrong with my WOS and has always been wrong with it. And the guy that posted the soundcloud comparison's WOS too, because the sounds he was getting is the same thing I've been experiencing.


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PostPosted: Thu, Apr 05, 2018 10:56am 
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Ok i'll ask Celestion for the files, obviously there will be a difference, I understand the question is more about having some kind of tonal alteration on ALL the TN cabinets, of the same kind, that you don't hear in any other 3RD party IR. Am I correct?

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Creating pro audio product for the guitar and bass players:
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Two Notes samples on Soundcloud

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PostPosted: Thu, Apr 05, 2018 1:48pm 
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Rock God

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guillaume_pille wrote:
Ok i'll ask Celestion for the files, obviously there will be a difference, I understand the question is more about having some kind of tonal alteration on ALL the TN cabinets, of the same kind, that you don't hear in any other 3RD party IR. Am I correct?
I could send you an IR, but I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I guess Celestion wouldn't care if I sent one stinking IR for testing purposes, but that's just a guess.

I can really only speak to cabs I'm most familiar with, which would be green back loaded cabinets. Other speaker types I don't have nearly the effort in trying them out back and forth.

My experience has been just like that sound cloud clip comparing different cab sim techs. The upper mids aren't as present in the TN's sims, and that tends to "push back" the guitar tone in the mix.

All that said, all the 3rd party IRs has this rattiness that makes me nuts which the TNs doesn't seem to have. It's why I always find myself going back to them. Still, I wished they had the same presence as the others.


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PostPosted: Fri, Apr 06, 2018 3:22am 
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OK Rogue, what about that: can you send me (i'll give you my email in MP) a DI track that I could run through all our greenback cabinets (straight, no EQ, nothing) and I will post the results on Soundcloud or whatever?

You may have found something that we didn't notice, and if there is it's the first step for fixing it!

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Creating pro audio product for the guitar and bass players:
Website : Two Notes Audio Engineering
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Two Notes samples on Soundcloud

For the best support, please check the FAQ and create a ticket on the Two Notes Help Desk


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PostPosted: Fri, Apr 06, 2018 3:26am 
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Quote:
All three WoS clips sound dreadful, absolutely not representative of what is possible with the product.


Sorry Pattste I didn't acknowledge your post, it's always hard to figure out if the product is not good, the guitarist is not good, or if it's actually the combination of the 2 that doesn't work (it's often that honestly).

I guess that when we see that kind of stuff on forum, the only answer would be to point people in the direction of better sounds made by people who are really able to figure out how to get the best out of a product.

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Creating pro audio product for the guitar and bass players:
Website : Two Notes Audio Engineering
Follow us on Youtube and Facebook
Two Notes samples on Soundcloud

For the best support, please check the FAQ and create a ticket on the Two Notes Help Desk


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PostPosted: Fri, Apr 06, 2018 7:01am 
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Rock God

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guillaume_pille wrote:
OK Rogue, what about that: can you send me (i'll give you my email in MP) a DI track that I could run through all our greenback cabinets (straight, no EQ, nothing) and I will post the results on Soundcloud or whatever?

You may have found something that we didn't notice, and if there is it's the first step for fixing it!

Thanks Guillaume. I sent a quick DI and a few renders of different IRs for comparison. I responded in the pm with additional information on settings and which IRs used.

I look forward to your results and thoughts.


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