Which Engl for me?

B

braintheory

Well-known member
So I've played pretty much all the different Engl models and my favorites are the Powerball II and Victor Smolski (probably because they're supposed to be almost identical). I liked them the best because they were the most tight and aggressive, and most importantly because they were one of the few Engls that surprisingly didn't sound processed (it's surprising because the powerball gets a lot of hate on forums).

My question is how do the post-2012 savages compare? I played savages made before 2012 and hated them. They were very processed sounding and sounded nasally and congested. However, I heard in 2012 they upgraded the transformers and did other things that made them sound much better.

Besides the newer savages, the only other engl that also catches my interest is the Invader II, but if it's like the original Invader then I'll pass. The original Invader was very lacking in aggression and attack and although it wasn't processed per se it was way too refined and polished sounding.
 
I have owned a bunch of Engls, and my favorite is the PBII. I like it even more than the EL34 SE I owned. I think you're on the right track. The PBII is one of the best amps made today.
 
squank":sa5m4bca said:
I have owned a bunch of Engls, and my favorite is the PBII. I like it even more than the EL34 SE I owned. I think you're on the right track. The PBII is one of the best amps made today.
Click to expand...

It's nice to know that others agree with me. I never understood why the Powerball gets so much hate on forums.

I first tried the PBII at the Axe Palace and asked Nick why the PB gets so much hate and he said because it's very compressed and lacks warmth. I then asked about the SE (the only Engl head I never played) and he said that it's very processed and that the PBII is better for what I wanted.

I'm still curious about the new savage though and the invader ii.
 
I really like Blackmore, Savage and Invader. Fireball and Powerball I didn't like. Guess I can't be of any help in this case :(
 
I know all Engl models very well as I service ENGL endorsees rigs as well do warranty repairs. I've got a newer Invader 150 on the bench right now which sounds amazing to me. Fatter tone than the 100 version which I had last week.
The different features (like gain stages, bright, MV, noise gate) you can program with the 4 channels make this amp extremely versatile in addition to great tones. You get VERY different voicings out of the 4 channels, where ch1 is super open with amazing vintage clean and break up tones. Would take that one to a Blues session any time. Crank the gain on ch1 and you get JCM800 tones. Ch2 goes from vintage to modern (gain stage 1 and 2). Ch3 rips modern metal tones while ch4 gets you singing high gain lead tones.

Of course, this is my very personal opinion ;-)
 
Do any of you guys though know about the post 2012 savages? That's what I'm most curious about.

Are they really that much different than pre-2012? Do they still sound processed? Can they be as tight or aggressive as the Powerball II?
 
The new Savages definitely sound VERY tight and aggressive. I had several new ones for service past few months. The voicing is different than the PB, though.
 
Jens Kruse":314pkudu said:
The new Savages definitely sound VERY tight and aggressive. I had several new ones for service past few months. The voicing is different than the PB, though.
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I guess that begs the question of reliability, if you've already had several post - 2012 Savages in your shop for service.
 
I had the Savages on the bench from touring bands (some Endorsees) for re-tube and check up/tune up before major tours. Never had a newer one for "repair". Was all routine procedures. 2 customers needed modifications for their particular needs done as well.
 
Jens Kruse":2fh6f6w9 said:
I had the Savages on the bench from touring bands (some Endorsees) for re-tube and check up/tune up before major tours. Never had a newer one for "repair". Was all routine procedures. 2 customers needed modifications for their particular needs done as well.
Click to expand...
Ok, cool. Thanks for clarifying that.
 
I can tell you PB2 is no joke.. dang thing flat out kicks ass.. its just a good rounded head that can get dam aggressive tones and cleans that are not bad at all..
does very well in live settings, also dam good gig head..
Side by Side on the same cab the only other head in its price range that will crush it is my Engl Savage SE, which is also a 6l6 head..

Im kinda in the same boat, also back in the market for my 3rd Engl..! Invader or SE..?
best of luck!
Rob.
 
Robd":2k2xophk said:
I can tell you PB2 is no joke.. dang thing flat out kicks ass.. its just a good rounded head that can get dam aggressive tones and cleans that are not bad at all..
does very well in live settings, also dam good gig head..
Side by Side on the same cab the only other head in its price range that will crush it is my Engl Savage SE, which is also a 6l6 head..

Im kinda in the same boat, also back in the market for my 3rd Engl..! Invader or SE..?
best of luck!
Rob.
Click to expand...

That's too bad because they discontinued the Savage SE. How's that compare to the regular savage or other Engl models?

Also, I HIGHLY doubt the Savage SE "crushes" the PB2. I've played diezels, friedmans, bogners, framus, etc. and own a Soldano SLO, Fryette Pittbull UL, and Mesa Mark III Coliseum (all of which are phenomenal amps) and IMO the PB2 sounds as good as anything else I've tried. I highly don't any high amp sound more than maybe 20% better than the PB2 and like I said so far I've played plenty of high gain amps that are as good, but none that were better IMO.
 
Jens Kruse":1w53aqt2 said:
The new Savages definitely sound VERY tight and aggressive. I had several new ones for service past few months. The voicing is different than the PB, though.
Click to expand...

How did the new Savages compare with the pre-2012 versions. Are the new savages still artificial sounding or nasally/boxy because of the mids? The savages I played (which were all pre-2012) were indeed very tight (but I think the PB2 was still tighter), but sounded very artificial and I feel like that aggression your are referring to was hidden under a lot of compression and a processed sound. Like I already said, they also were midrangy (which is agrees with you saying the voicing is very different that the PB), but in a way that made it sound bloated.

Like I said the PB2 was the only Engl I really liked because it didn't sound artifical or recorded.
 
I have a post 2012 savage and to my ears it doesn't sound processed at all and is compressed and aggressive.
It is a bit more nasally than I would like, but it's nothing that an EQ in the loop can't fix.
It's fairly quiet, especially w/ an NS-2 in the loop.
4 fairly distinct channels, w/ ch2 and ch4 favs.
Disclaimer: haven't played any other engls besides the fireball 100.
 
braintheory":9xybjpyq said:
How did the new Savages compare with the pre-2012 versions. Are the new savages still artificial sounding or nasally/boxy because of the mids? The savages I played (which were all pre-2012) were indeed very tight (but I think the PB2 was still tighter), but sounded very artificial and I feel like that aggression your are referring to was hidden under a lot of compression and a processed sound. Like I already said, they also were midrangy (which is agrees with you saying the voicing is very different that the PB), but in a way that made it sound bloated.

Like I said the PB2 was the only Engl I really liked because it didn't sound artifical or recorded.
Click to expand...

I really enjoy discussions about different amps and tone, but we should still all keep in mind that TONE is highly subjective and personal. I'm sure that if we all would be in the same room listening to let's say a new Savage while someone else is playing, we'd most likely all say different things about what we hear, what we like or dislike.
Then if we'd listen to another guitar player through the same rig again, it would all sound different again and we'd again have different opinions. Then if each of us would plug in, one at a time, the amp would sound again different. So much is in the fingers and play style, plus our very own perception and taste.

So keeping all that in mind, and of course respecting other players' opinion, my very personal take on the newer Savages is that it does have it's own very special voicing that is mid specific and I like it. I personally might not call it nasally or boxy, but I can understand someone perceiving it as such. Now, the artificial feel could come from the heavy compression that is part of this design. I addressed this part for 2 customers a few months ago by de-compressing the amp (similar to what I do with Diezels). This expanded the amp's voicing dramatically, as you still have your original factory tone, but the option to switch on the decompressed tone which opens the amp up, makes it more organic, more penetrating in the mix (so my customers say). The clean channel gets way more sparkly, punchy and vintage sounding, without loosing tightness.
The compression is my main personal complaint.

I did the same thing with a few Powerballs, Invaders (incl. Bumblefoot's) and Morse models and the customers love it. It is not making it sound better, but expanding the tonal options.

Last but not least, you have to find the right cabinet/speaker combination for the amp and we all know what HUGE difference that alone can make.

If any of you ever make it to L.A. please visit the ENGL showroom where you can play all models, all cabs without sales people breathing down your neck. :)
 
Jens Kruse":t2inid7y said:
braintheory":t2inid7y said:
How did the new Savages compare with the pre-2012 versions. Are the new savages still artificial sounding or nasally/boxy because of the mids? The savages I played (which were all pre-2012) were indeed very tight (but I think the PB2 was still tighter), but sounded very artificial and I feel like that aggression your are referring to was hidden under a lot of compression and a processed sound. Like I already said, they also were midrangy (which is agrees with you saying the voicing is very different that the PB), but in a way that made it sound bloated.

Like I said the PB2 was the only Engl I really liked because it didn't sound artifical or recorded.
Click to expand...

I really enjoy discussions about different amps and tone, but we should still all keep in mind that TONE is highly subjective and personal. I'm sure that if we all would be in the same room listening to let's say a new Savage while someone else is playing, we'd most likely all say different things about what we hear, what we like or dislike.
Then if we'd listen to another guitar player through the same rig again, it would all sound different again and we'd again have different opinions. Then if each of us would plug in, one at a time, the amp would sound again different. So much is in the fingers and play style, plus our very own perception and taste.

So keeping all that in mind, and of course respecting other players' opinion, my very personal take on the newer Savages is that it does have it's own very special voicing that is mid specific and I like it. I personally might not call it nasally or boxy, but I can understand someone perceiving it as such. Now, the artificial feel could come from the heavy compression that is part of this design. I addressed this part for 2 customers a few months ago by de-compressing the amp (similar to what I do with Diezels). This expanded the amp's voicing dramatically, as you still have your original factory tone, but the option to switch on the decompressed tone which opens the amp up, makes it more organic, more penetrating in the mix (so my customers say). The clean channel gets way more sparkly, punchy and vintage sounding, without loosing tightness.
The compression is my main personal complaint.

I did the same thing with a few Powerballs, Invaders (incl. Bumblefoot's) and Morse models and the customers love it. It is not making it sound better, but expanding the tonal options.

Last but not least, you have to find the right cabinet/speaker combination for the amp and we all know what HUGE difference that alone can make.

If any of you ever make it to L.A. please visit the ENGL showroom where you can play all models, all cabs without sales people breathing down your neck. :)
Click to expand...

If you were refering to the post-2012 savages, then it sounds like they're not much different from the pre-2012's. Also, the savages I played didn't necessarily feel or respond artificially, it sounded artificial. It was like I was hearing a recording of an amp rather than an actual amp. On the other hand my mesa mark iii sounds very raw and real. All the times that I tried the savage, even the people who worked at the stores agreed that it sounded artificial and one guy there even said it sounded like a modeling amp.

I'm also not 100% sure if the compression is fully responsible for the artificial sound because the PB2 also was compressed, but didn't sound artificial. At Axe Palace I was told that the SE and Savage are their most processed sounding amps.

But again I still haven't tried the post-2012 savage, so all these things I'm saying may not be true about the post-2012 savage.
 
braintheory":2fx38zxp said:
Robd":2fx38zxp said:
I can tell you PB2 is no joke.. dang thing flat out kicks ass.. its just a good rounded head that can get dam aggressive tones and cleans that are not bad at all..
does very well in live settings, also dam good gig head..
Side by Side on the same cab the only other head in its price range that will crush it is my Engl Savage SE, which is also a 6l6 head..

Im kinda in the same boat, also back in the market for my 3rd Engl..! Invader or SE..?
best of luck!
Rob.
Click to expand...

That's too bad because they discontinued the Savage SE. How's that compare to the regular savage or other Engl models?

Also, I HIGHLY doubt the Savage SE "crushes" the PB2. I've played diezels, friedmans, bogners, framus, etc. and own a Soldano SLO, Fryette Pittbull UL, and Mesa Mark III Coliseum (all of which are phenomenal amps) and IMO the PB2 sounds as good as anything else I've tried. I highly don't any high amp sound more than maybe 20% better than the PB2 and like I said so far I've played plenty of high gain amps that are as good, but none that were better IMO.
Click to expand...



Yes the Savage SE is hard to come by now days.
think I understand its somewhat of a cross between both the Savage and the Flagship head, SE
maybe thats why Engl pulled it? two heads is better than one right..lol
as far as I can tell, Savage SE gets well into the SE tone with quite abit of the same options tone wise but does lack Midi contl and a few other nice funtions.

and wow thats one hell of a list for PB2 tone range but I do agree as I also have a list with some of the same heads and including
Mesa Roadking 1 and Roadking II, Rivera KR7 and others.

Dont get me wrong I have posted on here before how PB2 does compare to the Savage SE but
I have yet to have anyone (metal heads) pick the PB2 over the Savage SE.
One guy put it about right.. "Savage SE is like a PB2 on steroids.."

Dont know about some of the other Engl heads but I do find the Invader very interesting and completly different beast..
which is why I got to have one!
 
Robd":2kjmu8hk said:
braintheory":2kjmu8hk said:
Robd":2kjmu8hk said:
I can tell you PB2 is no joke.. dang thing flat out kicks ass.. its just a good rounded head that can get dam aggressive tones and cleans that are not bad at all..
does very well in live settings, also dam good gig head..
Side by Side on the same cab the only other head in its price range that will crush it is my Engl Savage SE, which is also a 6l6 head..

Im kinda in the same boat, also back in the market for my 3rd Engl..! Invader or SE..?
best of luck!
Rob.
Click to expand...

That's too bad because they discontinued the Savage SE. How's that compare to the regular savage or other Engl models?

Also, I HIGHLY doubt the Savage SE "crushes" the PB2. I've played diezels, friedmans, bogners, framus, etc. and own a Soldano SLO, Fryette Pittbull UL, and Mesa Mark III Coliseum (all of which are phenomenal amps) and IMO the PB2 sounds as good as anything else I've tried. I highly don't any high amp sound more than maybe 20% better than the PB2 and like I said so far I've played plenty of high gain amps that are as good, but none that were better IMO.
Click to expand...



Yes the Savage SE is hard to come by now days.
think I understand its somewhat of a cross between both the Savage and the Flagship head, SE
maybe thats why Engl pulled it? two heads is better than one right..lol
as far as I can tell, Savage SE gets well into the SE tone with quite abit of the same options tone wise but does lack Midi contl and a few other nice funtions.

and wow thats one hell of a list for PB2 tone range but I do agree as I also have a list with some of the same heads and including
Mesa Roadking 1 and Roadking II, Rivera KR7 and others.

Dont get me wrong I have posted on here before how PB2 does compare to the Savage SE but
I have yet to have anyone (metal heads) pick the PB2 over the Savage SE.
One guy put it about right.. "Savage SE is like a PB2 on steroids.."

Dont know about some of the other Engl heads but I do find the Invader very interesting and completly different beast..
which is why I got to have one!
Click to expand...

Damn! Now I gotta find a used Savage SE! I'm still, though interested in the post-2012 savage and Invader and the PB2 (since I already know it's great).
 
braintheory":3a9d0ghu said:
Robd":3a9d0ghu said:
braintheory":3a9d0ghu said:
Robd":3a9d0ghu said:
I can tell you PB2 is no joke.. dang thing flat out kicks ass.. its just a good rounded head that can get dam aggressive tones and cleans that are not bad at all..
does very well in live settings, also dam good gig head..
Side by Side on the same cab the only other head in its price range that will crush it is my Engl Savage SE, which is also a 6l6 head..

Im kinda in the same boat, also back in the market for my 3rd Engl..! Invader or SE..?
best of luck!
Rob.
Click to expand...

That's too bad because they discontinued the Savage SE. How's that compare to the regular savage or other Engl models?

Also, I HIGHLY doubt the Savage SE "crushes" the PB2. I've played diezels, friedmans, bogners, framus, etc. and own a Soldano SLO, Fryette Pittbull UL, and Mesa Mark III Coliseum (all of which are phenomenal amps) and IMO the PB2 sounds as good as anything else I've tried. I highly don't any high amp sound more than maybe 20% better than the PB2 and like I said so far I've played plenty of high gain amps that are as good, but none that were better IMO.
Click to expand...



Yes the Savage SE is hard to come by now days.
think I understand its somewhat of a cross between both the Savage and the Flagship head, SE
maybe thats why Engl pulled it? two heads is better than one right..lol
as far as I can tell, Savage SE gets well into the SE tone with quite abit of the same options tone wise but does lack Midi contl and a few other nice funtions.

and wow thats one hell of a list for PB2 tone range but I do agree as I also have a list with some of the same heads and including
Mesa Roadking 1 and Roadking II, Rivera KR7 and others.

Dont get me wrong I have posted on here before how PB2 does compare to the Savage SE but
I have yet to have anyone (metal heads) pick the PB2 over the Savage SE.
One guy put it about right.. "Savage SE is like a PB2 on steroids.."

Dont know about some of the other Engl heads but I do find the Invader very interesting and completly different beast..
which is why I got to have one!
Click to expand...

Damn! Now I gotta find a used Savage SE! I'm still, though interested in the post-2012 savage and Invader and the PB2 (since I already know it's great).
Click to expand...


Well hope I dont kick myself in the as.. but I am putting my PB2 up for sale/trade and going for the Invader so you let me know when your ready to give it a shot..
You cant go wrong with the PB2..
 
Robd":1ku918rb said:
braintheory":1ku918rb said:
Robd":1ku918rb said:
braintheory":1ku918rb said:
Robd":1ku918rb said:
I can tell you PB2 is no joke.. dang thing flat out kicks ass.. its just a good rounded head that can get dam aggressive tones and cleans that are not bad at all..
does very well in live settings, also dam good gig head..
Side by Side on the same cab the only other head in its price range that will crush it is my Engl Savage SE, which is also a 6l6 head..

Im kinda in the same boat, also back in the market for my 3rd Engl..! Invader or SE..?
best of luck!
Rob.
Click to expand...

That's too bad because they discontinued the Savage SE. How's that compare to the regular savage or other Engl models?

Also, I HIGHLY doubt the Savage SE "crushes" the PB2. I've played diezels, friedmans, bogners, framus, etc. and own a Soldano SLO, Fryette Pittbull UL, and Mesa Mark III Coliseum (all of which are phenomenal amps) and IMO the PB2 sounds as good as anything else I've tried. I highly don't any high amp sound more than maybe 20% better than the PB2 and like I said so far I've played plenty of high gain amps that are as good, but none that were better IMO.
Click to expand...



Yes the Savage SE is hard to come by now days.
think I understand its somewhat of a cross between both the Savage and the Flagship head, SE
maybe thats why Engl pulled it? two heads is better than one right..lol
as far as I can tell, Savage SE gets well into the SE tone with quite abit of the same options tone wise but does lack Midi contl and a few other nice funtions.

and wow thats one hell of a list for PB2 tone range but I do agree as I also have a list with some of the same heads and including
Mesa Roadking 1 and Roadking II, Rivera KR7 and others.

Dont get me wrong I have posted on here before how PB2 does compare to the Savage SE but
I have yet to have anyone (metal heads) pick the PB2 over the Savage SE.
One guy put it about right.. "Savage SE is like a PB2 on steroids.."

Dont know about some of the other Engl heads but I do find the Invader very interesting and completly different beast..
which is why I got to have one!
Click to expand...

Damn! Now I gotta find a used Savage SE! I'm still, though interested in the post-2012 savage and Invader and the PB2 (since I already know it's great).
Click to expand...


Well hope I dont kick myself in the as.. but I am putting my PB2 up for sale/trade and going for the Invader so you let me know when your ready to give it a shot..
You cant go wrong with the PB2..
Click to expand...

How much would you want for the PB2? Also, I have a Bogner XTC 101B for sale/trade. IMO the XTC 101B smokes the Invader, but to each his own.
 
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