Line Level/Instrument Level. Pedal Specs: A Horror Story

maddnotez

Banned
Well-known member
Ok I put this on TGP because there seems to be a lot of pedal gurus on there but the traffic is high and it will probably be overlooked and I wanted to post it here. It is a copy/paste and a very lengthy read. I apologize in advance :)

Hopefully I can explain this right but I am having a hard time determining what to look for regarding Pedal specs. I truly apologize for this long post and really appreciate anyone who can help.

I have a Bogner Uberschall Revision 2 which has a series loop and it was designed for rack gear. I cannot verify if it is line level output but I think that it is.

The channel volume is also the effects loop send level which is a problem for me and I am getting some horrible noises (squeal/screech) if I turn it up. Assuming because it is too hot and my pedals cannot handle this so I have a few questions.

First, the pedals. What exact spec should I be looking for on a pedal to know this pedal will work with my super hot line level loop? Impedance I assume here? If not please advise..

If yes then what in the ever living mother haha. I have some confusion because different companies have different descriptions. Example, MXR 10 Band says input 470k OHM and output 5k OHM but then it also says max level at 1k hz, All sliders at 0db...5.2rms (+14dbv)

That is like reading a foreign language but very specific whereas my TC Toneprint pedals say simply input 1M, output 100. Ok easy to read but is that enough info?

So for this part I am just simply seeking in layman's terms what do I need to look for and how will I know that a pedal is good for my loop?



The other question I have is regarding these line level shifter devices. Ebtech Line Level Shifter and Morley Effects Loop Corrector. Are these the answer to my problems? I have seen mixed reviews here and TBH it sounds too good to be true.

If I get one of these will it work for all my pedals? What if I get a instrument level pedal in the chain next to a live level type pedal? Will this box fix everything accordingly, or will I still need to have either all Line Level Pedals or all Instrument Level Pedals?

That is really all I have, just some confusion and am not sure what to do. I love this amp but the FX Loop is absolutely killing me.

Any advise and input is appreciated but please do not just tell me to crank my Master Volume, that is not what I want here.

Here is what I have in the chain and if anyone could confirm with pedals like a gate or a tuner, do I even need to worry about this issue?

G string 2, TC HOF, TC Corona, MXR 10 Band, Suhr Koko Boost, Turbo Tuner ST-200.

I did get the Boneshaker but it is a toy and not living on the board. I also plan to get a TC Flashback and a Wah pedal.
 
TLDR;

What specs on a pedal do I need to look for to be able to use it in a LINE LEVEL FX LOOP?

Do these devices like Ebtech Line Level Shifter work? If so, what if I have both instrument level and line level pedals in the same chain?

Does a pedal that does not produce effects such as a tuner or noise gate matter regarding line levels? Do I need to match these as well?
 
Can't help much but thinking out loud:
If you put something right after the Send that knocks the level down, it seems that's the same thing as turning down your channel volumes. Then you'd have to turn up the MV which you said you didn't want to do.

You could use something(s) like you're describing, something(s) that both knocks the Send level down and then boosts it back up. But the Bogner FAQ says to just turn down the channel volumes. Which to me implies that you don't really need to boost it back up.
 
SpiderWars":33rs5nm1 said:
Can't help much but thinking out loud:
If you put something right after the Send that knocks the level down, it seems that's the same thing as turning down your channel volumes. Then you'd have to turn up the MV which you said you didn't want to do.

You could use something(s) like you're describing, something(s) that both knocks the Send level down and then boosts it back up. But the Bogner FAQ says to just turn down the channel volumes. Which to me implies that you don't really need to boost it back up.

Yeah it is pretty confusing...

But doesn't the Line Level Shifter type box only do one thing? As in only lowers or only highers output?

I am not sure if it knocks it down and then boosts back up.

Hopefully it would not RE boost because TBH I just need my pedals to be able to accept the output from the loop and nothing more. I actually want to use my channel volume and not my Master because it sounds better.
 
I hear ya. Many/most channel switchers I've had do sound more open with channel masters set high. I was prob thinking of a device for the SLO (can't remember who makes it) that attenuates then boosts. The SLO loop return has to be hot or the amp doesn't sound right imo.
 
What about an always ON EQ, dialed in to twaekyour sound but with level turned down?

EDIT: but not a Boss GE-7. That pedal totally squashed the SLO loop. But the cheapo Biyang 7-band does not, it takes it like achamp.
 
SpiderWars":2faaz12y said:
I hear ya. Many/most channel switchers I've had do sound more open with channel masters set high. I was prob thinking of a device for the SLO (can't remember who makes it) that attenuates then boosts. The SLO loop return has to be hot or the amp doesn't sound right imo.

Yeah same here. Just the Uberschall sounds better to me with lower master and higher channel volumes. Not a huge difference but enough for me to notice.

When I do that I get a really annoying screech of squeal from the pedals or maybe the loop.

I really don't want to sell the amp although I use the effects sparingly. I could get away without using them at all but I'd rather be able to use them if wanted.

I might just go ahead and get the Line Level Shifter but I'd hate to waste the money if it doesn't work or if it messed with my tone. I'd rather just use pedals that can handle my loop but idk where to look to determine that before purchasing.
 
SpiderWars":3ilazjjz said:
What about an always ON EQ, dialed in to twaekyour sound but with level turned down?

Not sure I am following.

Are you saying use the EQ to lower the Loop's output?

Like Send, EQ, Delay, Verb, Return?

I guess I could try that to see if it works. I do have a 10 band MXR.
 
Yep, that's it. Of course, the EQ will have to be able to take that level and my old Boss GE7 would not. But that cheapo Biyang does. I always put that on top of my amp (since it's always ON and is set&forget) to get the side benefit of better buffering for the long Send cable to my board.
 
The send level on the back turn down low and main master turn up for the volume you need. The send level is there so you can use pedals.
 
Also if you have some pedals in front and some in the rear make sure you have a isolated power supply or you will have grounding issues.
 
RACKSYSTEMS":3mikdu32 said:
Also if you have some pedals in front and some in the rear make sure you have a isolated power supply or you will have grounding issues.
Voodoo Labs Pedal Power units should be fine, correct?
 
RACKSYSTEMS":2sfxxpr4 said:
The send level on the back turn down low and main master turn up for the volume you need. The send level is there so you can use pedals.
I assumed it was an older one that did not have the Send Level. I've never owned one but when I looked at pics of back panel I found a pic of an old one on top of a newer one (with SL control).
 
SpiderWars":2r0jszex said:
RACKSYSTEMS":2r0jszex said:
The send level on the back turn down low and main master turn up for the volume you need. The send level is there so you can use pedals.
I assumed it was an older one that did not have the Send Level. I've never owned one but when I looked at pics of back panel I found a pic of an old one on top of a newer one (with SL control).

Correct.

I don't have a send level. My channel volume doubles as the send level. Rev 2 loop was designed for pro rack gear and I'm looking to stick with pedals. (Although considering selling everything for an FX8 to be done with it)

It's workable but with this amp I prefer the sound I get with channel volume high and master volume low.

Bogner recommends channel volume at 8:00 which is basically 1 (where 7:00 is zero). I can get it up to about 9:00 or so before any issues arise but I like it at 11:00 for best results with master set according to the situation.

Trying to see if the line level shifter will lower the output correctly to allow me to crank the channel volume and still get the same tone I like...

OR trying to find out how to verify if a given pedal can handle the juice.

Still in the testing phase but going to solo each pedal to see if there are specific ones that aren't working well with my loop.


garey77":2r0jszex said:
RACKSYSTEMS":2r0jszex said:
Also if you have some pedals in front and some in the rear make sure you have a isolated power supply or you will have grounding issues.
Voodoo Labs Pedal Power units should be fine, correct?


When able, I'm planning to get the CS12 I think it was. I have two 18v pedals and a handful of 9v.
 
Hey, I kinda got the same problem...(I just posted it up on the Rig Talk section).
You could get the Radial EXTC. That's what I got.,it's kind of expensive, $250, but it works well. It does exactly what you need: brings the level down, so as to not distort the pedals, then, brings it back up again, to line level. It has 2 loops in it, and level controls. So, you can run to pedals in parallel, or, chain a bunch together to run in series.
They make 2 versions, one is for 500 series system for recording, the other one, (which is the one you want), is a stand alone unit. It's like a small little box thingy.
 
Hey, I kinda got the same problem...(I just posted it up on the Rig Talk section).
You could get the Radial EXTC. That's what I got.,it's kind of expensive, $250, but it works well. It does exactly what you need: brings the level down, so as to not distort the pedals, then, brings it back up again, to line level. It has 2 loops in it, and level controls. So, you can run 2 pedals in parallel, or, chain a bunch together to run in series.
They make 2 versions, one is for 500 series system for recording, the other one, (which is the one you want), is a stand alone unit. It's like a small little box thingy.
Also, it has a wet/dry mix knob. And, an output knob, so you have more control of how hot the signal is coming out of it, back into your loop.
 
Back
Top