Kemper question

skoora

Well-known member
So all the clips I've heard tend to stick with one tone or level of gain. How do the profiles succeed in capturing the gain taper of the amp and also volume rolloff on the guitar. I guess basically I'm wondering how does it profile all the possible knob tweaks on an amp. Like on a Tweed Fender where it gets swampier as you turn the bass up, not just fatter. Or the way the Master being maxed gives you that extra gain in a Hiwatt. Do you have to profile several settings to get one accurate final profile?
 
Doesn't work that way, profiles a sound then applies eq to that sound. It's not modeling specific component interactions and such, just a single tweakable final tone.
 
https://soundcloud.com/okstrat/kemper-dynamics

Here's a clip I did of volume rolloff on the guitar... I think it's pretty damned dynamic. BTW, 'modeling specific component interactions' isn't really happening either IMHO unless they fixed the Uber. Last I knew, the presence control on the uber model worked like a regular amp - if you've owned an Uber, you know it's more of a contour control. If it was modelling component interactions, shouldn't it work just like the real amp?

Pete
 
moltenmetalburn":2zhymzfl said:
Doesn't work that way, profiles a sound then applies eq to that sound. It's not modeling specific component interactions and such, just a single tweakable final tone.

So with a Bassman for e.g.. Do you profile a Bassman clean tone, a Bassman tight dirty tone and bassman swampy dirty tone and then have three separate profiles in the Kemper?
 
stratotone":2pvr9gyk said:
https://soundcloud.com/okstrat/kemper-dynamics

Here's a clip I did of volume rolloff on the guitar... I think it's pretty damned dynamic. BTW, 'modeling specific component interactions' isn't really happening either IMHO unless they fixed the Uber. Last I knew, the presence control on the uber model worked like a regular amp - if you've owned an Uber, you know it's more of a contour control. If it was modelling component interactions, shouldn't it work just like the real amp?

Pete


Well ,I wasn't referring to the axe fx , but yes the knobs on the amps ARE identical on the axe fx since FW revision 7.0 if I remember correctly. Typical pot value variance applies.

What that has to do with the kemper NOT functioning in this matter I cannot ascertain.

My specification was to outline the kemper is not modeling anything, therefore the knobs most likely work on the same frequency centers but without surrounding component interaction modeling., which is what the OP asked.

Also just realized he was asking more specifically about gain than eq so my response could be confusing.
 
skoora":s997saia said:
So all the clips I've heard tend to stick with one tone or level of gain. How do the profiles succeed in capturing the gain taper of the amp and also volume rolloff on the guitar. I guess basically I'm wondering how does it profile all the possible knob tweaks on an amp. Like on a Tweed Fender where it gets swampier as you turn the bass up, not just fatter. Or the way the Master being maxed gives you that extra gain in a Hiwatt. Do you have to profile several settings to get one accurate final profile?

Only the AxeFx2 has the actual complete tone stacks of the amps modeled. The Kemper just profiles a snapshot of a particular amp setting.

You can only adjust the gain knobs of the Kemper so far from the profile before it starts sounding a little weird. This is why the Amp Factory that sells Kemper Profiles will have 8-15 of the same amp profile but each done at different amp settings. It seems to work for people though.

With all that said, because the Kemper profiles the amp+cab together as one profile, when the profile is good it is far more plug n play friendly than the Axe Fx.
Cliff fully models the amps in the Axe, but you are left with trying to match amps with cab IRs and it can be a pain to tweak them both together to sound totally organic. The fact that the Kemper essentially eq/matches the amp/cab together for you in a single profile is why so many people get better results much faster with the Kemper. Kinda like a factory Tube Amp+Cab just works together from the get go!

All of the same sounds are in the Axe-II for sure, plus with the actual amp tone stack adjustments. It's just more of a PITA for most users to wrap their heads around ;)
 
skoora":2r1h2p40 said:
moltenmetalburn":2r1h2p40 said:
Doesn't work that way, profiles a sound then applies eq to that sound. It's not modeling specific component interactions and such, just a single tweakable final tone.

So with a Bassman for e.g.. Do you profile a Bassman clean tone, a Bassman tight dirty tone and bassman swampy dirty tone and then have three separate profiles in the Kemper?


Bingo, if that's what you prefer.... The kempers on board gaiin treb mid bass is EXTREMELY responsive as well though, can't undermine how powerful they are. Not to mention, power sag controls, clarity/ tube bias controls/amp compression parameters/pick dynamic parameters. Plus the graphic and studio EQs you can assign to the effects block as well... It can be as complicated or as simple as you want, however, does not by Amy means, need those controls to get unbelievable tones out of the KPA.
 
BYTOR":364c0v82 said:
skoora":364c0v82 said:
So all the clips I've heard tend to stick with one tone or level of gain. How do the profiles succeed in capturing the gain taper of the amp and also volume rolloff on the guitar. I guess basically I'm wondering how does it profile all the possible knob tweaks on an amp. Like on a Tweed Fender where it gets swampier as you turn the bass up, not just fatter. Or the way the Master being maxed gives you that extra gain in a Hiwatt. Do you have to profile several settings to get one accurate final profile?

Only the AxeFx2 has the actual complete tone stacks of the amps modeled. The Kemper just profiles a snapshot of a particular amp setting.

You can only adjust the gain knobs of the Kemper so far from the profile before it starts sounding a little weird. This is why the Amp Factory that sells Kemper Profiles will have 8-15 of the same amp profile but each done at different amp settings. It seems to work for people though.

With all that said, because the Kemper profiles the amp+cab together as one profile, when the profile is good it is far more plug n play friendly than the Axe Fx.
Cliff fully models the amps in the Axe, but you are left with trying to match amps with cab IRs and it can be a pain to tweak them both together to sound totally organic. The fact that the Kemper essentially eq/matches the amp/cab together for you in a single profile is why so many people get better results much faster with the Kemper. Kinda like a factory Tube Amp+Cab just works together from the get go!

All of the same sounds are in the Axe-II for sure, plus with the actual amp tone stack adjustments. It's just more of a PITA for most users to wrap their heads around ;)

I would imagine also, since the Kemper is more of a cloned "signal", that the guitar interaction with the output tone is going to be more influential than on the A2.

With the A2 and the MCF Scenes in v9.0, you can take an amp, say the Mark IV and run up to 5 scenes in it for varying gain levels or FAT/SAT/Brite setting toggles, rather than a program change. Or, set the gain on the expression pedal and goose it that way.
 
Why do people get rid of their amps after profiling them, if you can only profile individual tones?
I constantly find new sounds by tweaking dials, pushing buttons and changing tubes. That's not possible when you have only cloned three or four sounds from an amp and then got rid of it.
 
D-Rock":7laqpnsu said:
Why do people get rid of their amps after profiling them, if you can only profile individual tones?
I constantly find new sounds by tweaking dials, pushing buttons and changing tubes. That's not possible when you have only cloned three or four sounds from an amp and then got rid of it.

I don't get rid of mine after profiling, but there are some amps I have that pretty much do one thing only - like my vintage Marshalls. But you can actually tweak the Kemper profile of an amp FAR beyond what you can do with the original amp. You can add or subtract gain, add definition, compression, power sagging, pick attack, tube shape, clarity, tube bias, and that's just on the amp module. Then you can swap to a different cab, where you have high shift, low shift, character controls, a bass/mid/treble/presence EQ, THEN your effects including several different types of EQ that can be placed before or after the amp, etc.

Another thing to consider also is that there are some tones in an amp you use because you HAVE to - example, I never really enjoyed the clean tone on my SLO, but I used it because I was gigging and had to unless I wanted to take another amp and an A/B switch. I loved the overdrive enough that I put up with it. If I had an SLO now, I'd profile a killer overdrive/lead tone, and wouldn't touch the clean with a ten foot pole - why do that when I can profile a Fender Twin or a Vox? Same thing with my rackmount dual rectifier, the tone is in the gainier sounds, not too many people covet that 'rectifier clean' when they can just as easily access a dedicated kickass clean amp with the Kemper.

If I get motivated later I may do a video with a profile and tweeze the shit out of it just to show what it can do.
 
This is good info. So basically you can profile certain settings of your amp n the Kemper, and call them back almost like your amp was midi controlled.

I don't see that as bad at all. Each amp has 3-4 favorite tweak settings. I can profile those and call them up quicker than changing the settings on the actual amp in a live situation.

Seems like if a person wanted to find something to not like with the Kemper or AxeII It would be possible. But both seem to have all kinds of things going for them. I am probably more Kemper leaning. Just profile a few amps on my 3-4 settings each and run with it.
 
I think in a couple of years I'll be there. I saw the vid of the profile of the Ecstasy Classic. It was incredible, but I mainly felt inspired to get a Bogner because I would want to get all the sounds that amp could get. Not just a few profiles or choices. I wish I could demo an AXE II as it sounds more like my thing.
 
skoora":y0kpsueb said:
I think in a couple of years I'll be there. I saw the vid of the profile of the Ecstasy Classic. It was incredible, but I mainly felt inspired to get a Bogner because I would want to get all the sounds that amp could get. Not just a few profiles or choices. I wish I could demo an AXE II as it sounds more like my thing.

I can relate to this. In a nutshell your response above is why I don't like the Mesa MKV. II has a MKIIC mode, but it is just one slice of it. I bought and then sold a MKV, then sought out a MKIIC and love it.

That said, if I do get a Kemper, I wll probably keep 2 or 3 amps and sell the rest after extensive profiling.
 
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