IR 500ms vs 18ms?

guillaume_pille":3d7uaj2j said:
SunKing I agree with you on having the possibility to do it. That is definitely something we can work on for future products.

Still, what about my blind test? ^^
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Happy to hear that.

Yes, I did download the files and took the blind test. I was able to pick the 12ms and 500ms, but struggled with getting the clips in-between right. I felt the 50ms had more bass and actually picked that one as being 200ms :) It's really not night and day – I think it depends somewhat of sound and style. In heavy tracks like this, one might prefer the shorter it's. That said, It sounds to me like the 500ms are more balanced with slightly more dynamics, I guess that's why they are perceived as slightly lower in volume …
When I find time I'll record a a few test tracks with a less distorted guitar sound and post them here.
 
Do keep in mind that the convolution based cab sims only directly effect the linear aspects, i.e. just freq response over time, and don't directly effect any non-linear aspects such as dynamics, compression, distortion.

SunKing":3ew6hlqt said:
guillaume_pille":3ew6hlqt said:
SunKing I agree with you on having the possibility to do it. That is definitely something we can work on for future products.

Still, what about my blind test? ^^
Click to expand...

Happy to hear that.

Yes, I did download the files and took the blind test. I was able to pick the 12ms and 500ms, but struggled with getting the clips in-between right. I felt the 50ms had more bass and actually picked that one as being 200ms :) It's really not night and day – I think it depends somewhat of sound and style. In heavy tracks like this, one might prefer the shorter it's. That said, It sounds to me like the 500ms are more balanced with slightly more dynamics, I guess that's why they are perceived as slightly lower in volume …
When I find time I'll record a a few test tracks with a less distorted guitar sound and post them here.
Click to expand...
 
A track with more information as in more bass, top end and depth will sound bigger and less compressed – dynamic, no?
 
I'd say if it sounds bigger it's the exact opposite, less dynamic. ;) There is a definition (the real one) used by sound engineers and technicians that is often the opposite of what guitarists call dynamic.;)

Dynamic is just the range between the lowest sounds and the loudest ones, without consideration of frequency.
 
Sorry, my bad, dynamics was not the right way to describe it, though I perceive the 500 ms track to sound slightly softer.
But I stand by my description bigger sounds have higher dynamics, the more compression the smaller the sound :)
 
The reason the longer IR sounds "softer" to you is the influence of the room tone, so add some room tone to a shorter IR and you'll get the same effect.

Note that room tone is a subtle effect, that is typically felt rather than heard once the tone is placed in a mix where masking and apparent loudness effects diminish it greatly. Again, having room tone is critical, though how you produce the tail isn't (as long as it's there).

Pro audio engineers will tell you the opposite as Guillaume noted, seeing apparent loudness differences are typically achieved with compression and EQ, i.e, more compression duplicates what your ears do naturally when confronted by big, i.e. loud sounds, and more low/top end EQ duplicates the Fletcher-Munson Curve effects, where the louder sound is perceived to have more low and top end by the human ear/brain.

SunKing":3pct2u65 said:
Sorry, my bad, dynamics was not the right way to describe it, though I perceive the 500 ms track to sound slightly softer.
But I stand by my description bigger sounds have higher dynamics, the more compression the smaller the sound :)
Click to expand...
 
djd100":3u8lt90p said:
The reason the longer IR sounds "softer" to you is the influence of the room tone, so add some room tone to a shorter IR and you'll get the same effect.

Note that room tone is a subtle effect, that is typically felt rather than heard once the tone is placed in a mix where masking and apparent loudness effects diminish it greatly. Again, having room tone is critical, though how you produce the tail isn't (as long as it's there).

Pro audio engineers will tell you the opposite as Guillaume noted, seeing apparent loudness differences are typically achieved with compression and EQ, i.e, more compression duplicates what your ears do naturally when confronted by big, i.e. loud sounds, and more low/top end EQ duplicates the Fletcher-Munson Curve effects, where the louder sound is perceived to have more low and top end by the human ear/brain.

SunKing":3u8lt90p said:
Sorry, my bad, dynamics was not the right way to describe it, though I perceive the 500 ms track to sound slightly softer.
But I stand by my description bigger sounds have higher dynamics, the more compression the smaller the sound :)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I understand your view. You are happy with 18 ms ir's and prefer to add ambiance/room, great. As I mostly use the TN cabs I do too. I know how this works, I've been recording guitars for a long time. I usually use UAD Ocean Way for this which is great, but I still like to have to option to have the ambiance from the actual studio/recording.
Once again, you seem to misunderstand what I'm saying "compressed/loud" is not bigger sounding ... louder in your face, yes, not "bigger"
 
^ That sounds massive!

And I like your style... dropping the controversial technical question, then just showing back up to wail. :rock:
 
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