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PostPosted: Thu, Jul 12, 2018 8:33pm 
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Just ordered an AX8 and interested if I can use a BBE with it.. :confused:

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PostPosted: Thu, Jul 12, 2018 8:55pm 
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Is this some kind of joke?


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PostPosted: Thu, Jul 12, 2018 11:18pm 
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Elric wrote:
Is this some kind of joke?

No..just wondering if anyone has used a BBE with Fractal..I've always had one in my rack rig and a Sonic stomp in the loop with my TC g system 4CM with a Fireball 100..may be looking to thin the
herd a bit so to speak if the AX8 is all that..as I am hoping.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 2:22am 
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I have never gotten along with the sonic maximizer junk. I doubt you would need it with snax.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 2:33am 
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Once I read a really good explanation of sonic maximisers somewhere, that hit the nail on the head as it usually happens to most people, myself included.
I dunno who said it but what I can remember was it
was kinda like this:
sonic maximisers are like a drug. you get one, plug it in and it sounds amazing, everything is so clear, like "taking a blanket off your amp" whenever you disengage it you feel you've lost all your tone and so feel like you "need" to have it on all the time.
At one point you try turning it up some more to see what its like. Woah its even better.
Turning it down now sounds like you're ruining your tone so you constantly keep it high... your friends hear your guitar sound and try to gently tell you that
its a bit harsh and piercing.
You get annoyed and tell them to go to hell. its only when they give you an intervention and let you A/B their gear with yours that you realize you've been sucked in by a unit designed to make you "think" like the sound is better. You realize that the unit makes you feel like you need to depend on it more and more. When you finally remove it from your rig, you realize what harm it's done and it never gets used again. You feel like you need to tell people your story at support groups so that they don't fall into the trap, and you feel a little better.
My name is John, and I was a maximiser-a-holic.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 2:56am 
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That´s a Steve Lukather quote, I think. He said it was just like cocaine for your sound, and that´s coming from a guy that knows a thing or two about cocaine.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 3:03am 
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the sonic maximizer is a mastering unit to pump out/compress low and high frequencies on a hifi audio system. It makes sense to have it in your rack to add some flavor to a recording but i would never use it for a live guitar sound.

i had it, tried it, to me it made my tube sound seem digital, lifeless and pumped to a point where i said - it does not sound healthy at all.
Also for the effect to make any sense - you have to use broadband speakers, which in case u use it with an axe fx and some fr/fr that might be the case.

I have not seen a pro have this in their live gear ever.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 3:06am 
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aftec wrote:
Once I read a really good explanation of sonic maximisers somewhere, that hit the nail on the head as it usually happens to most people, myself included.
I dunno who said it but what I can remember was it
was kinda like this:
sonic maximisers are like a drug. you get one, plug it in and it sounds amazing, everything is so clear, like "taking a blanket off your amp" whenever you disengage it you feel you've lost all your tone and so feel like you "need" to have it on all the time.
At one point you try turning it up some more to see what its like. Woah its even better.
Turning it down now sounds like you're ruining your tone so you constantly keep it high... your friends hear your guitar sound and try to gently tell you that
its a bit harsh and piercing.
You get annoyed and tell them to go to hell. its only when they give you an intervention and let you A/B their gear with yours that you realize you've been sucked in by a unit designed to make you "think" like the sound is better. You realize that the unit makes you feel like you need to depend on it more and more. When you finally remove it from your rig, you realize what harm it's done and it never gets used again. You feel like you need to tell people your story at support groups so that they don't fall into the trap, and you feel a little better.
My name is John, and I was a maximiser-a-holic.



I am a bit confused. Tone is an arbitrary idea of what we use to describe our idea of how something sounds. And the only way we guage tone is through our own hearing, but we shouldnt ever trust our own hearing?

I do understand the point you were making about overreliance on an effect..especially in a vacuum. But intervention by others to ensure your "tone" meets mob expectations, is a bit over zealous.

Everyone always says "if it sounds good, it is good" ,until the equipment in question has fallen out of favor.


I dont know if Bbe stuff sounds good, havnt even seen one in 20 years. Only the OP will know if its good for him or not!


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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 6:39am 
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They're garbage. Buy an EQ. That's your best tone-shaping tool.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 6:48am 
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lol

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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 6:57am 
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aftec wrote:
Once I read a really good explanation of sonic maximisers somewhere, that hit the nail on the head as it usually happens to most people, myself included.
I dunno who said it but what I can remember was it
was kinda like this:
sonic maximisers are like a drug. you get one, plug it in and it sounds amazing, everything is so clear, like "taking a blanket off your amp" whenever you disengage it you feel you've lost all your tone and so feel like you "need" to have it on all the time.
At one point you try turning it up some more to see what its like. Woah its even better.
Turning it down now sounds like you're ruining your tone so you constantly keep it high... your friends hear your guitar sound and try to gently tell you that
its a bit harsh and piercing.
You get annoyed and tell them to go to hell. its only when they give you an intervention and let you A/B their gear with yours that you realize you've been sucked in by a unit designed to make you "think" like the sound is better. You realize that the unit makes you feel like you need to depend on it more and more. When you finally remove it from your rig, you realize what harm it's done and it never gets used again. You feel like you need to tell people your story at support groups so that they don't fall into the trap, and you feel a little better.
My name is John, and I was a maximiser-a-holic.

:lol: :LOL:
Wow that's hilarious. And quite true. Only tried one once with an RD100. No Idea why I tried it, my soundguy had one and I grabbed it. No matter what I did I couldn't get that amp to sound better. Desperation time I guess.

A band I was in back in 91, my second gig with them they gave a Sonic Maximizer to the first person to buy the band a pitcher of beer. Lol

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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 7:11am 
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They actually had sort of a mini renaissance fifteen years ago, you saw more than a few metal players on the forums using them again at that point. Wonder what prompted that, someone famous must have been seen with one...?

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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 7:16am 
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Hi my name is Shredhead and I'm a former SM user. :(

Like Aftec wrote, using one, you think this is great. After a while, I'm not even sure why, I started to A/B without it. My tone was fuzzier without it, looser, less polished. I didn't like it. But, the more that I A/B'd it, the more I started to hear the processing of the SM and realized that it was pulling out frequencies that it shouldn't and compressing the tone in a way that was taking away all of the cool dynamics. It's been sitting on my shelf now since 2001.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 8:27am 
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The Axe is so tweakable, I don't see why you'd need it! I have one and prefer it when playing bass rather than guitar. I know 2 or 3 guys in town who have it in their bass rigs as well, and a couple who use it with PA systems, but zero guitar players. I used to use it back when I had a VH4 at bedroom volumes, but left it at home for jams/practices as it hurt more than it helped (it definitely scooped the mids). Cheers!

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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 9:03am 
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BBE hasn't been essential gear for me either for a long time, but I really don't find it to be rubbish. Sometimes when I'm in a pinch and something is just a little off when I'm dialing in a tone, and all my normal EQ'ing just isn't coming together (not frequent, but it can happen), sometimes I still like throwing it into the chain cause I know a couple of quick knob turns I'll probably get something usable pretty quickly.

I just reread my original post...you know, like a lot of times on forums, didn't really answer your question. Regardless of the "popularity" of the gear in question, I think what you asked was pretty straightforward. Anybody actually use these 2 things together?

I haven't, I might try it for fun this weekend (though I have an older Axe FX). It might just take the "blanket" off the Axe FX :scared:


Last edited by Rock Bodom on Fri, Jul 13, 2018 10:09am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 10:09am 
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yuck


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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 10:48am 
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The Enhancer block in the axe fx is basically a Sonic Maximiser/Aphex Aural Exciter copy. I guess it makes the SM redundant.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 2:41pm 
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From HCAF; back when it was awesome:
Quote:
Just a word of warning. Maximizers are the guitar gear equivalent of crack. The experience one goes through is identical:

1. The first hit: You hook it up and initially think "Oh MY GOD this is the greatest thing EVER DOOOOOD!!!!!111!!!!1! I've found THE tone!"
2. You start using on a regular basis: Buy some model BBE, hook to rig, engage it 100% of the time. Rewrite all your patches.
3. You try to get your friends hooked: Dude, check out my rig, this thing takes it over the top!!!.
4. You go into addiction/denial: Friends think your tone has gone to sh*t but you think it is totally awesome. You start talking msinformed BS about different sound frequencies traveling at different velocities (hint: violation of Newtonian physics).
5. There is an intervention: Friend lets you A/B his non-maximizer rig versus yours in live setting, Yours sounds like over-processed dung, his rocks. He tells you, as a Bro, the BBE must go. You realize the BBE is a band aid for guitar tone and not even a good one at that.
6. You go into rehab: Another "like new" BBE xx2 unit hits eBay.
7. Regret: I wasted a sh*tload of time futzing with my rig, patches, etc, and my tone isn't any better and I'm back to square one. I Wonder what GE-7 pedals are going for these days.

Maybe you should avoid the whole thing. If you must post-process your modelling tone I would strongly suggest an EQ. It's much more versatile and will be long usable after the BBE is gone.

Yes, I'm a former user and I regret ever bothering with it.


No, the enhancer block in the AxeFx has nothing to do with exciters or BBEs, it is a variant of a "Haas Delay" (no relation to 80s super group HSAS Hagar, Schon, Aaronson, and Shrieve); which uses delays and panning to make a stereo signal sound wider. This does sound pretty cool in a true stereo rig.

Dynamic presence deep edit control combined with the standard depth control is supposed to be similar in effect.

Or you could use an EQ like da big boyz. :D


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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 7:53pm 
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Doesn't a Sonic Maximizer do the same thing, basically, as an eq? Don’t know a lot about them, but I remember that it was initially designed for pa units. Some metal dudes started using them in their rigs, so BBE started marketing them to guitarists.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jul 13, 2018 8:19pm 
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Sonic Maximizers are awesome for high gain SS amps that you are going for a really compressed, tight, sterile tone.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jul 14, 2018 12:51am 
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Double yuck


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PostPosted: Sat, Jul 14, 2018 1:29am 
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A key piece of gear for Zakk... the Aphex Big Bottom Model.


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PostPosted: Sat, Jul 14, 2018 2:50am 
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Mr. Willy wrote:
Doesn't a Sonic Maximizer do the same thing, basically, as an eq? Don’t know a lot about them, but I remember that it was initially designed for pa units. Some metal dudes started using them in their rigs, so BBE started marketing them to guitarists.


Smarter people than me have traced out the circuits and they are state variable fitlers, with the band pass fixed and the high pass and low pass filters adjustable (Lo Contour and Process, respectively).

Like any tool, they will have their uses but are not one-size-fits-all. I recently built a clone and while I think it’s unnecessary with most of my amps, it is useful with my old Valvestate, it kinda acts like resonance and presence controls. I think that amp needs a recap though. The trick is not to go extreme on the settings.


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PostPosted: Sat, Jul 14, 2018 10:05am 
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:yes:
mnemonic wrote:
Mr. Willy wrote:
Doesn't a Sonic Maximizer do the same thing, basically, as an eq? Don’t know a lot about them, but I remember that it was initially designed for pa units. Some metal dudes started using them in their rigs, so BBE started marketing them to guitarists.


Smarter people than me have traced out the circuits and they are state variable fitlers, with the band pass fixed and the high pass and low pass filters adjustable (Lo Contour and Process, respectively).

Like any tool, they will have their uses but are not one-size-fits-all. I recently built a clone and while I think it’s unnecessary with most of my amps, it is useful with my old Valvestate, it kinda acts like resonance and presence controls. I think that amp needs a recap though. The trick is not to go extreme on the settings.


I started using one back in the late 80's with a tube pre/power rack system...still in there today. I always liked the result...but as you note on the levels...I've never set the knobs much past noon and mostly leave it flat or actually closer to 11 on the low end. My take and appreciation for it of what it does is take an AM sound to FM stereo.

I have AB'd quite a bit and it definitely makes a difference...whether that difference is a good or bad thing is always up to the user...as stated in this thread elsewhere...trust your ears. I'll try it both ways and see if I still need my "crack hit" to feel comfortable with my sound! ;)

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PostPosted: Sat, Jul 14, 2018 1:36pm 
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aftec wrote:
The Enhancer block in the axe fx is basically a Sonic Maximiser/Aphex Aural Exciter copy. I guess it makes the SM redundant.


Yes, that is what I was going to post. I think it is pretty good for certain things. I use it when I'm trying to get a "Van Hagar" tone and works great for that! Years ago I had a patch that nearly nailed the 5150 and OU812 years.


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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 16, 2018 5:15pm 
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romanianreaper wrote:
aftec wrote:
The Enhancer block in the axe fx is basically a Sonic Maximiser/Aphex Aural Exciter copy. I guess it makes the SM redundant.


Yes, that is what I was going to post. I think it is pretty good for certain things. I use it when I'm trying to get a "Van Hagar" tone and works great for that! Years ago I had a patch that nearly nailed the 5150 and OU812 years.


Nah, as I noted above the AxeFx enhancer block is a stereo imaging/widening effect that has no relationship to exciters or sonic maximizers. It is actually useful/sounds good too; but only if you are running a stereo rig, otherwise you will just end up with phasing problems. I think people confuse it because of the name (it has come up many times on the Fractal forum)... and the fact that it's one of those effects that when folks engage it they are like "I am not sure what this effect is doing but I like it" does not help clarify things, either. ;)

See Fractal's wiki/forum for more info. You have a bunch of EQs on tap with the AxeFx so there is really not much need for something which messes with your frequency response in some nebulous way. Parametric EQs are where it's at baby.


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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 17, 2018 7:56am 
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Dave L wrote:
That´s a Steve Lukather quote, I think. He said it was just like cocaine for your sound, and that´s coming from a guy that knows a thing or two about cocaine.


:lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL:


I swear Steve was either drunk, high, or both during this video! Still cool though. I just love how he admits to the 'G.A.S.' syndrome and rants how (truly) pathetic it is and his advice about it. Then shows off all his equipment with all the "grease" on his effects.



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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 17, 2018 7:59am 
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Mr. Willy wrote:
Doesn't a Sonic Maximizer do the same thing, basically, as an eq? Don’t know a lot about them, but I remember that it was initially designed for pa units. Some metal dudes started using them in their rigs, so BBE started marketing them to guitarists.


Yeah that's truly. Basically a glorified overdone EQ. A dedicated EQ pedal, well any cheapy 7-band works better.

I admit I fell for the Sonic Maximiser hype a while ago... :confused: I could not get rid of that pedal. It really did become a doorstop and then I gave it to my cousin who plays the drums. I don't know what he has since done with it.


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