Einstein voicing change/ Tube configurations

Moin

First, I really love my Einstein but I`d really like to experiment with different Preamp- and Powertubes
Currently I have stock Ruby Preamptubes and TAD EL34.

I`d like to archive two different setups: An kinda 80s Hotrodded Marshall Hard Rock/Metal type tone and on the other hand and 60s Hendrix/Led Zep tone with that raw an open crunch...
So basically I`m aiming for more of an Marshall Plexi Sound
Any suggestions maybe?
I know these are two very different Sound-territories but the Amp doesn`t have to cover both directions at the same time
I already tried an NOS JAN 5751 in V2 and the sound of channel 2 didn`t really changed but there was a lot less Gain available and I quite liked It that way.

Regarding the Powertubes I`m really leaning towards the Winged =C= EL34 OR KT88`s...or even both (I have the 100 watt Einstein). Anyone ever tried both of these?
Then has anyone ever tried KT66`s in an Einstein? I`m also thinking about trying some Gold Lion KT66`s.

And does anyone besides me thinks that ch1 mode 2 sounds a bit...well...tame? Some maybe would say boring...
Don`t get me wrong I really love the Amp...the Hi-Gain is pure bliss and the Clean channel is really one of the best I`ve ever heard but ch1 mode 2 sounds so predictable (Altrough it sounds cool with my Keeley Java Boost pushing it)
Maybe there is a way to add a little more "Sag" to it? I`m really looking forward to change the charakter of this mode with different Tubes

Happy Holidays / Frohes Fest (auch an die ganze Diezel-Mannschaft, ihr baut die geilsten Amps )

Ha, I have to tell ya, the way of getting more or less plexi-ish vibe is running the amp at ch1 mode 2.

I think your problem is not the amp, it's the pickups in your guitar.

Hey!

I used to run my Einstein in the exact same configuration you are using. TAD EL34 and Rubys in front. Guitars I am using is PRS standard 24 and PRS Tremonti; I run it through a Bogner 212 (1/3 open back, V30's). I am more of a hard-rock kinda guy, so I was looking for Marshall-esque sound only better.

After trying a LOT of different tubes, I am now running SED =C= EL34's in the power section. Pre-amp section is Telefunken NOS 12AT7(v1), TAD 7025 (v2 + v3), TAD 12AX7C (v4, v5, v6). I find that the Telefunken in V1 adds a bit of grind and "character" to the sound and takes away some of the hi-gain compression and saturation.

I don't think it sounds like a Plexi (not looking for that sound, either), but overall I find this setup lets my amp breathe more. Cleans and Texas sound better and more defined, Ch2 is still Diezel-awesome and a little more like a hotrodded Marshall; which is what I was after. Ch1 gain at 12, Ch2 gain at 9, EQ's at 12 and my Einstein ROCKS.

Rock on!

reussen":3izde76q said:

Hey!

I used to run my Einstein in the exact same configuration you are using. TAD EL34 and Rubys in front. Guitars I am using is PRS standard 24 and PRS Tremonti; I run it through a Bogner 212 (1/3 open back, V30's). I am more of a hard-rock kinda guy, so I was looking for Marshall-esque sound only better.

After trying a LOT of different tubes, I am now running SED =C= EL34's in the power section. Pre-amp section is Telefunken NOS 12AT7(v1), TAD 7025 (v2 + v3), TAD 12AX7C (v4, v5, v6). I find that the Telefunken in V1 adds a bit of grind and "character" to the sound and takes away some of the hi-gain compression and saturation.

I don't think it sounds like a Plexi (not looking for that sound, either), but overall I find this setup lets my amp breathe more. Cleans and Texas sound better and more defined, Ch2 is still Diezel-awesome and a little more like a hotrodded Marshall; which is what I was after. Ch1 gain at 12, Ch2 gain at 9, EQ's at 12 and my Einstein ROCKS.

Rock on!

Click to expand...

Great post!
Couple of followup questions:
What is the "winged" c EL34 that everyone talks about, and why is it better than normal EL34s?
Is there an explanation to what V1 to V7 does?

Batman":11m03sm7 said:

Great post!
Couple of followup questions:
What is the "winged" c EL34 that everyone talks about, and why is it better than normal EL34s?
Is there an explanation to what V1 to V7 does?

Click to expand...

Thanks!

Well, overall, the so called Winded C's are known to be the most sturdy and reliable EL34's on the market. Check http://thetubestore.com/el341.html for a more detailed overview about characteristics. There is a lot of sonic difference between Russian made (like SED) and Chinese made (like Ruby or TAD, which are all Shuguang tubes) tubes. "Better" is a matter of opinion; I just like the way they sound in Diezels.

V1 through V6 (Einstein head
V1 (closest to guitar input affects both channels
V2: channel 2
V3: both channels
V4: mixer & loop driver
V5: return driver
V6: phase inverter

In my experience, all tubes affect the sound in some way. V1, V2 and V3 affect it the most.

Rock on!

R.

reussen":1gt6cd83 said:

Hey!

I used to run my Einstein in the exact same configuration you are using. TAD EL34 and Rubys in front. Guitars I am using is PRS standard 24 and PRS Tremonti; I run it through a Bogner 212 (1/3 open back, V30's). I am more of a hard-rock kinda guy, so I was looking for Marshall-esque sound only better.

After trying a LOT of different tubes, I am now running SED =C= EL34's in the power section. Pre-amp section is Telefunken NOS 12AT7(v1), TAD 7025 (v2 + v3), TAD 12AX7C (v4, v5, v6). I find that the Telefunken in V1 adds a bit of grind and "character" to the sound and takes away some of the hi-gain compression and saturation.

I don't think it sounds like a Plexi (not looking for that sound, either), but overall I find this setup lets my amp breathe more. Cleans and Texas sound better and more defined, Ch2 is still Diezel-awesome and a little more like a hotrodded Marshall; which is what I was after. Ch1 gain at 12, Ch2 gain at 9, EQ's at 12 and my Einstein ROCKS.

Rock on!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info

Looks like I need to get some NOS tubes
Does anyone know a got retailer that still has some NOS tubes and sells them for reasonable prices? I`m not an expert on tubes so I have mixed feelings about buying on Ebay...
And I still have a TAD 7025 and 7025S, but until next week I have no Cab here so I can`t try them out
And was there a big difference when you swapped to =C= EL34`s? I`ll probably go for them when the time has come but I`m also tempted to try out KT66`s

I think your problem is not the amp, it's the pickups in your guitar.

Click to expand...

That also came to my mind
I mostly use an ESP Eclipse with EMG`s (60/81 on 18V) and my old Dean Evo Noir with stock no-name PU`s...
I know most people think EMG`s suck and I agree mostly but they`re really tight what I like about em and I don`t want to rewire my ESP. But in the Future I will definitaly replace them with some Bare Knuckle`s
And for the Dean I´ll probably change those stock PU`s to some Painkillers

Hmm... well, depending on how well your ears are trained: yes, there is a big difference. To my ears, Chinese EL34's have a more "smooth" and liquid sound. The SED's have more grind; a bit less "modern" sounding. All of that is just my opinion, of course.. A lot depends also on (like others have said) pickups, guitars, speakers and cab construction. Look even further and you'll get to cables and strings as well... For me, that would be thick mahogany PRS guitars with rosewood fretboard, Ernie Ball strings, dunlop picks, Monster Rock cables, etc etc...

Hmm... I bought my NOS tubes on ebay as well, but he lived nearby, so I picked them up myself. No idea where to get them at good prices. IMO the prices are a bit absurd, buuuuuuut... they sound great!

Oh my god, this conversation is triggering thoughts that just have to be written down. What I'm writing relates also to the thread about playing with no gain. Here we go:

My main band Reptilos is a standard Guitar Bass Drums and a Singer doing mostly original stuff. I have plenty of space and we play loud rock/metal with lots of gain. Tonewise I think I go for a mix of John Sykes on Whitesnake 1987 without the reverb, and Kyuss with a little more treble.

If I practice on my own, and especially at low levels, my sound gets sweeter by the hour. Finally I end up with a tone that brings tears to my eyes (at least if I'm drunk). Then I bring that tone to rehearsal and it totally vanishes. I always end up scrapping the effects and tightening up my tone with more edge. This insight leads to some conclusions that I am practicing since many years:

PUPs - My favourites for gigging is without a doubt EMG81/85. They cut through so nicely, crystal clear even with heavy gain. Do I like the sound when I practice? No, far too clinical. No life. But who do I play for, myself or an audience?

Speakers - I love V30s, but on stage I prefer EVs. The direct sound sucks, far too edgy, but they give a way better tone when miked.

Effects - I hate them on stage. Only thing they do is make my tone disappear in the mix. Only boxes I use is Wah and noise gate, and for slide a JAM compressor (beautiful sucker). The only effect that is needed is a good solid gain tone. The dryer the sound is, the better it gets when the volume is cranked up. I hate reverb and delay on stage. The room itself gives enough.

Playing - If I do lots of gigs, my playing gets harder and simpler. Less left hand vibrato, less speed. More gain and volume. More focus on long tones, simple patterns and rythmic riffs during soloing.

My main point is that when discussing gear, I tend to go for what works on stage, which is almost never the tone I like when practicing.

Those were my christmas words of wisdom. To quote James Brown:
"I feel so good I wanna kiss myself"

I have posted this in other threads on this forum but will post here again.
I use NOS Mullards, NOS Telefunkens, NOS RFT's, NOS Brimars, NOS RadioTechnique preamp tubes and all are either 12AU7's or 12AT7's. These reduce the output distortion to the power tubes in my Einstein combo. The amp has a bit less output volume, but I am getting the tone of Clapton playing in Cream doing the 1960's version of Crossroads, which I like.

The gain remains a bit more clear all the way up the gain dials on each channel, but the sustain and thrust of the amp is still there. The 12AU7's are my main preference.

The NOS Mullards are the sweetest sounding, followed by the NOS Brimars, and then the NOS RFT's, which are a bit darker in nature. The NOS Telefunkens add a tad more of a Fendery "chime" to the amp if placed in V-1. With a Telefunken in V-1 and Mullards or Brimars in V-2, and V-3, the amp takes on more of a roar, and less distortion, but not so little as to sound lifeless and drab. I can then run my gain on channel's 1 and 2 up to about 2-3 o'clock and the amp sounds more vintage in a Marshall-type flavour, but definitely retains the Diezel signature tones, along with a violinesque sustain and a hot-rodded Marshall SLP grind.

To augment this tone, I use JJ KT77 power tubes. This gives me a bit of the clean "gliss" of a 6L6, along with the fabulous grind of an EL-34.

I use an XOX Audio Tools Handle double humbucker guitar most of the time, but I occassionally use a Strat for Knofler songs like Sultan's of Swing and the amp retains the tones and power feeling.

If possible, I reccomend getting cryogenically frozen tubes as they tend to outlast the others and have a slightly better tone platform. While the expense can be a bit more, I figure that if I am playing on such a great amp, the tubes should also matter as they definitely will change the amp's basic tonal structure. Diezel amps respond to different tube types very well and offer a very wide palette of different available tones, based on the type and company from which each tube originates.

Wow some one just said what i finally figured out after 40 years L.o.L.When playing my Einy at home it's about gain and reverb because I don't have to cut through the mix.When i play in live situtations and have to let the beast out it changes ..big time.I have been playing tube swap till I'm blue in the face.I play with only 2 of the El34's in my 100wtt Einy.I've read C-4 comments about using weaker preamp tubes.My fear in trying this method is I will loose gain.I hate using stomp boxes an only use reverb from a TC G sharp.I would really like C-4 feedback about gain loss.It seems he is a seasoned,LoL older player and has same tastes.I never run gain on chan 2 past 12ish so maybe ,I should try the weaker tube thing.Best wishes to all ,you guys have been tons of help.Seems I'm not the only tone junky in the world.Mery X-mass Steve

Well, I must be the odd man here. I use the same settings on my amps live & for personal playing or recording. The only thing I change is the master volume. I may or may not add or cut some highs depending on the room. Thanks to my EVs, no way I could have done this with v30s. That said I don't really give a rat's ass about my live tone, at least not to the extent some people obsess about it, there are far more important things to worry about when playing live IMO.

C-4 I look forward to trying out your tips about lower gain in V1-V3. I am waiting for a bunch of preamptubes from 12AU7 to 12AX7higain. I will swap around and enjoy. I have a feeling the Einy has enough gain to not lose out from the lesser gain of the 12AU7 or 12AT7. I only have one question. Who is the girl in your avatar?

Subzero, it's nice to hear I'm not alone.

Cheers guys

nbarts":17sry39k said:

Well, I must be the odd man here. I use the same settings on my amps live & for personal playing or recording. The only thing I change is the master volume. I may or may not add or cut some highs depending on the room. Thanks to my EVs, no way I could have done this with v30s. That said I don't really give a rat's ass about my live tone, at least not to the extent some people obsess about it, there are far more important things to worry about when playing live IMO.

Click to expand...

It seems you're not so odd after all. I do the same, I stay with a very dry tone even on my own. I have an interesting live setup on smaller gigs, wrote about it in other threads. I put an EV in a monitor that I place beside the PA monitor in front of me. Feed it off the amp head. I mike the guitar monitor and put quite a bit of guitar in the PA monitor as well. Lots of guitar straight in my face, I can hear every nuance of my playing live which makes me play much better. Plus it doesn't bother the other guys. The tone in my face i way too shorp to be nice, but the guitar sound out of the PA is really nice. Fat, sharp and singing.

So basically I`m aiming for more of an Marshall Plexi Sound

Click to expand...

I can tell you my findings on this subject, I have to tell you I was very surprised with my achievement.

First this was my setup:
Einstein 100wt with JJ E34Ls, Chinese 12ax7s, EVM12L speakers.
Used the Horizon with Nailbomb & Edwards LP with Rebel Yell & an MXR10 band EQ for this experiment.

My goal was getting a driven plexi tone, the one when you push it pretty hard on the cabinet & get taht sweet transparent driven sound & some more modded plexi vibe. Well, I pretty much nailed it. It wasn't 100% plexi, but it was very freakishly close & considering the friendly volume of the amp it was fabulous.

First I plugged the MXR EQ in the serial loop
Boosted 500hz, 16khz
Slightly boosted 4khz
Backed up a bit 250hz, 2khz, 8khz
You may have to lower the input gain & boost the output of the EQ to eliminate any unpleasant distortion at this stage.

Einstein on Ch1 Mode 2, gain almost all the way up, volume pretty low, highs about 1:00, lows about 11:00, everything else noon

I dug the Horizon better, but the Edwards wasn't half bad. The LP sounded fuller & thicker, but wasn't as sweet & I kanda wished it had a bit more gain sometime.

I started with guitar volume all the way down
Just a little up you get that plexi breakup type of sound
A little more, not even half way up yet, it already sounds like dimed amp
Half way it sounds like well modded Marshall, very much reminded of that Friedman brown eye recording
Then it gets like that HBE sound in their demo
Volume all the way up it's full metal, at least with nailbomb it is, brutal & transparent

Overall, I've just earned a new level of respect for the Einstein ..... & myself too

nbarts":8892jovj said:

So basically I`m aiming for more of an Marshall Plexi Sound

Click to expand...

I can tell you my findings on this subject, I have to tell you I was very surprised with my achievement.

First this was my setup:
Einstein 100wt with JJ E34Ls, Chinese 12ax7s, EVM12L speakers.
Used the Horizon with Nailbomb & Edwards LP with Rebel Yell & an MXR10 band EQ for this experiment.

My goal was getting a driven plexi tone, the one when you push it pretty hard on the cabinet & get taht sweet transparent driven sound & some more modded plexi vibe. Well, I pretty much nailed it. It wasn't 100% plexi, but it was very freakishly close & considering the friendly volume of the amp it was fabulous.

First I plugged the MXR EQ in the serial loop
Boosted 500hz, 16khz
Slightly boosted 4khz
Backed up a bit 250hz, 2khz, 8khz
You may have to lower the input gain & boost the output of the EQ to eliminate any unpleasant distortion at this stage.

Einstein on Ch1 Mode 2, gain almost all the way up, volume pretty low, highs about 1:00, lows about 11:00, everything else noon

I dug the Horizon better, but the Edwards wasn't half bad. The LP sounded fuller & thicker, but wasn't as sweet & I kanda wished it had a bit more gain sometime.

I started with guitar volume all the way down
Just a little up you get that plexi breakup type of sound
A little more, not even half way up yet, it already sounds like dimed amp
Half way it sounds like well modded Marshall, very much reminded of that Friedman brown eye recording
Then it gets like that HBE sound in their demo
Volume all the way up it's full metal, at least with nailbomb it is, brutal & transparent

Overall, I've just earned a new level of respect for the Einstein ..... & myself too

Click to expand...

Great, I will try this out as well. Good post!

This forum is an awesome fountain of knowledge. I really appreciate all you guys!