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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 12:33pm 
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Damn are these a PAIN...

You want to buy new? Too damn expensive.
You want to buy used? Nobody is willing to ship because of its weight and most cabs are all beaten up to death.
You want to sell? Everybody is low-balling, don't want to commit to a local pick-up and worst of all, they are worth a third or a fourth of its original price in the used market.

It seems that with 4x12s it doesn't matter where you are in the spectrum, you get screwed no matter what.

The best thing to do is to buy used, get a good deal and keep it.

Or...

Don't buy one at all!

At this point in time, I consider 4x12s to be a luxury item. We have much better options at our disposal.

Playing in your house/bedroom? Invest in a good pair of active studio monitors.
Playing live? Use the monitors on stage or build an in-ear monitor system.
Rehearsing? You don't need a 4x12 since a combo would suffice, or again, you can use your in-ear monitor system.

Also... 4x12s are HEAVY and take up way too much space.

Advantages? They look "cool" and they are considered to be the fundamental rock/metal guitar tone.

That is it! They are a horrible investment overall and its very limited to what it can offer to us musicians in this day and age.

I got rid of mine and won't be buying one anytime soon

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 12:43pm 
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Buy used and enjoy. I'm going bigger and using a old sunn or amped bass cab on their sides, LR but that's me...

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 12:56pm 
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I agree with you to an extent. I think that if you are buying a 4x12, just plan to keep it forever or expect to lose money. Of course I’ve had some good luck selling them, usually by selling the speakers online and the empty cabinet locally.

I think it makes more sense to take 2x12s to gigs or plug directly in, but I’ll never not love plugging into my full stack


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 1:12pm 
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Buying gear as a investment is rarely a good idea.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 1:34pm 
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stephen sawall wrote:
Buying gear as a investment is rarely a good idea.


Of course there is no real financial gain by flipping them (rarely do we see this in the guitar/musician prosumer world). But meaning, they don't retain their value in the used market and my argument is that they don't offer much to us players now as they did a decade or two ago.

But yes... funny, smart ass remark you did there man, lol.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 1:37pm 
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stephen sawall wrote:
Buying gear as a investment is rarely a good idea.

This X20000000000....Only a few items really can quantify as a good gear investment these days. I have 3 4x12s, and I'd get way more out of parting speakers individually than selling each cab as a whole. 76 1960 w/ original creambacks, 83 1960 with original 65s and a mid 90s BX cab in mint condition with original 6402 coned GBs.
Even at low volumes, a 4x12 is the cats ass tonewise vs anything else.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 1:40pm 
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Haha that's why I'm going bigger AND with a C+ Coliseum I figure 8x12 is a better match.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 3:07pm 
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I love 4x12s! They sound better, to me. I don't mind carting them around, either, but that's my choice. If someone else doesn't want to, that's an equally valid choice.

Good condition used 4x12s are out there for decent prices ($400-$500) and GC ships them cheap. Unloaded Splawns are under $500. Mojo, Avatar... many other options that are quality cabinets for realistic prices. Less than a year ago, I bought what looked like a brand new 1960B and its live-in flight case for $400 from GC. Shipping was around $40 for 2-day express.

Think of an auto mechanic... professional tools are expensive, mostly because professionals make money using them. If you're going to work in auto repair, you have to balance the money you spend with the money you make, and you have to spend money to make money. If you're NOT going to work in auto repair, then you have to balance the money you spend with how much pleasure you get from using professional tools as a hobby. In either case, the tools themselves are not an investment (not sure, but I doubt the used wrench market allows for a good ROI for wrench sellers). Rather, the investment is made in the profession or the hobby.

Cabinets, amps, guitars, pedals, etc., etc., are all just musical tools. Either spending the money for professional tools is worth it to you or it isn't. There isn't any right or wrong here, at least outside an individual's unique situation.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 3:39pm 
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The funny thing about 4x12s is that the going rate for them is typically the same or LESS than the price of the speakers inside 'em haha.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 3:42pm 
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Very true... and, as an investment only, that at least makes them somewhat profitable. :) LOL!

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 3:59pm 
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lol. I have TWELVE 4x12 cabinets. I’ve never had a problem buying or selling them. I’ve never lost my shirt selling them.

That said, I usually play through four 4x12’s at any given time. Sadly, to me, using one 4x12 sounds tiny and shitty.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 4:03pm 
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dont buy them as an investment then

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 4:11pm 
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I've been through most variations of cabs and landed right back at a good 1x12. I put the pa in for my bands and I've spent just as much time and money getting that pa to sound great as I have getting my dream guitar tone. The result is that every thing is mic'd up and it's far to indulgent to have more than one mic on my cab so no need for anything bigger, I let the pa do the work. Sure 4x12's look impressive and move some air but they take up space on stage and in the van, they're heavy and the size of the venues I play in they would be complete overkill. A 1x12, a good mic and a good pa works for me!


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 4:21pm 
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:m9:

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 4:29pm 
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They may be tough to move on the used market but they sound and feel great to play through. And for anyone saying they're overkill for certain gigs, they're not really much "louder" than other cabs, they just fill more space and move more air. In fact, I often argue that they can be quieter because they don't have the beam of ear destroying sound that some smaller cabs have so you can turn your amp down a bit and the sound still surrounds you and spreads out more.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 4:57pm 
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psychodave wrote:
lol. I have TWELVE 4x12 cabinets. I’ve never had a problem buying or selling them. I’ve never lost my shirt selling them.

That said, I usually play through four 4x12’s at any given time. Sadly, to me, using one 4x12 sounds tiny and shitty.

:rawk:

I've got 16 4x12s... and 4 2x12s. Never had a problem buying or selling them, either.

I usually only play through 2 or 3 at a time, though. And yeah, the difference between a 1x12 and a 4x12 is about as drastic as the difference between 1 4x12 and 4 4x12. The most I've played through at once is 10, and that was... indescribable! :)

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 5:18pm 
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Octavio Molina Shaw wrote:

Advantages? They look "cool" and they are considered to be the fundamental rock/metal guitar tone.
These two reasons trump and outweigh any weak "investment", "weight" or "size" argument you listed.

Funny, I've heard this before, and its typically a thought process of either a tired seasoned gigging musician, or some millenial thinking they came to an epiphany that must be shared with the world.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 6:00pm 
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when i see bands setting up some silly combo amp or whatever non 4x12 bullshit i usually go to the bar or outside.


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 6:09pm 
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agree with original post. i’m a 2x12 guy by nature. that said i do like some 4x12s and they gotta be slants. every straight cab i’ve had i just can’t tame he lows. but to each their own.


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 6:15pm 
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I love 4x12s. They take up a little more car/van space than a 2x12 but usually no more stage real estate. And since mine are pretty much staying put in Madison Square Mancave, bulk is almost a non-issue. They are just a luxury for me. But I totally get the OP's lament.


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 6:23pm 
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I tried going the S.S. Axefx route and wasnt happy. I tried using a 1x12 then a 2x12 and still wasnt happy. I WANT to use a 1 x12.. I WANT to use a small 2 space solid state rig..!!!!!!!!! Cant stress how much I would love to use that type of setup, but my 4x12 and tube amps have a sound and feel that I cant get with anything else... I "could" just settle, but I have never been an "its good enough" type of person.
The more flooded the market gets with 4x12s the better for me, so sell people sell..!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 6:33pm 
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phil b wrote:
I tried going the S.S. Axefx route and wasnt happy. I tried using a 1x12 then a 2x12 and still wasnt happy. I WANT to use a 1 x12.. I WANT to use a small 2 space solid state rig..!!!!!!!!! Cant stress how much I would love to use that type of setup, but my 4x12 and tube amps have a sound and feel that I cant get with anything else... I "could" just settle, but I have never been an "its good enough" type of person.
The more flooded the market gets with 4x12s the better for me, so sell people sell..!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

Totally agree...I tried SOOO hard to love the AX8 and it is really cool, sounded damn good through an FRFR speaker but after playing it, then playing through one of my tube amps all I could think about was "Hmm, what can I buy after returning the AX8?" Lol. After using tube amps AND 4X12s for so many years I can't change. Not worth it.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 6:47pm 
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Paid $800 - ImageMESA/Boogie Road Ready pre Rola Celestion by John Bazzano, on Flickr

Sold the speakers for $1,850. So I just have to disagree with the OP.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 6:49pm 
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Meh, to each his own
I love 412's, I have 6 and might get a few more more before its over :lol: :LOL:
Yes, they all get used

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 7:10pm 
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Racerxrated wrote:
phil b wrote:
I tried going the S.S. Axefx route and wasnt happy. I tried using a 1x12 then a 2x12 and still wasnt happy. I WANT to use a 1 x12.. I WANT to use a small 2 space solid state rig..!!!!!!!!! Cant stress how much I would love to use that type of setup, but my 4x12 and tube amps have a sound and feel that I cant get with anything else... I "could" just settle, but I have never been an "its good enough" type of person.
The more flooded the market gets with 4x12s the better for me, so sell people sell..!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

Totally agree...I tried SOOO hard to love the AX8 and it is really cool, sounded damn good through an FRFR speaker but after playing it, then playing through one of my tube amps all I could think about was "Hmm, what can I buy after returning the AX8?" Lol. After using tube amps AND 4X12s for so many years I can't change. Not worth it.

Basically. You CAN go directly into the FOH, but the removal of air being pushed and the pressure that 4x12s create just leave something missing. It'd certainly be easier, but I gotta have that feeling in order to get sufficiently hyped for a gig.


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 7:25pm 
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https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/msg ... 00225.html

So you're saying this is a bad deal?

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 7:42pm 
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They are what they are. You could make a lot of the same points about tube amps but most of us still play them because they sound and feel better. Same goes for 4x12 cabs.

Just need to buy smart (GC used or local) and know what you want. I don't get the "takes up too much space" argument since they have the same footprint as 2x12 and even some wide 1x12 cabs.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 7:47pm 
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I had a Mesa oversized 4x12 that served me well for years, sold it after my old band broke up. Now I have a couple of 2x12's and a 1x12- my oversized 2x12 doesn't leave me feeling like I'm missing anything, and it fits in my current car.


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 8:05pm 
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Markedman wrote:
https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/msg/d/mesa-boogie-4x12-cabinet/6667600225.html

So you're saying this is a bad deal?


i’m saying it is. lol


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 8:23pm 
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As a full fledged 412 user and abuser, trust me when I say that when you crank up a 69 or 71 Marshall Super Lead through 4 412 cabs, you would never consider any modeler of any type. I had 46 4x12 cabs at one point before I started selling them to start my car collection. But I still have 26 of them here. Sure, you can probably only bring a 1x12 or 2x12 to what passes as a club gig these days, or at home, which is why I converted my 3 car garage, soundproofed it, and keep them all in there to blast at will.

I'm sorry that many of you won't ever experience that type of sonic overload, fun and pleasure.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 8:55pm 
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I got some really great deals on some 4x12 a few months ago locally.

Bogner Uberkab - $500
Diezel 4x12 - $440
Mesa 4x12 - $300


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 9:25pm 
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Matching a head and a cab is too hard to resist and the deals on GC.com are killer specially the depreciation hit that is already eaten..


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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 10:03pm 
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It's funny how some people are focusing too much on the word "investment". I already explained in a second post why I opted to choose that word within the context of the thread. My apologies for using this specific "clickbait" word in my title. Poor word choice indeed.

In my experience, when buying used gear, I get the same amount in return within a short window of time. Kind of like "freezing money" into a suspense account - meaning: not generating any interest but you know you'll use it for something else later. Hasn't been the case with 4x12s; out of all the used gear I've moved throughout the years, which is plenty.

Additionally, I did state that getting a good deal in the used market and KEEPING the 4x12 and commiting to it is a smart way to go.

I currently have no use for a 4x12. I'm saying this after trying out quite a different array of Bogners, Diezels, Mesa cabs, etc. I believe that most of the "tone" lies within the speakers when going for the classic rock/metal setup, so imagine me GASing and trying different cabs and speakers instead of amps... I was a happy camper with most of the amps I've owned!

Not only that but going back and forth with 4x12s while gigging, recording, rehearsing and moving 8 times within 10 years. It drived me nuts! Like owning an additional piece of heavy furniture that you'll bump and scrape the walls with.

I needed to vent. So my words and thoughts weren't fully there in my initial post.

I completely understand people being happy with their 4x12s. Not here to change their minds if they work for them. Just stirring the pot a bit to see if there are other souls out there with similar thoughts and experiences as me. Again for (poor old) me, it has been a waste of time, money and forgot to mention that I experienced at least 2 (very) minor injuries (back and toe).

For those out there looking for alternatives/solutions.. there are a handful of great ones out there that will give you equal/similar results so you can satisfy a crowd/audience/customer.

This has been my homo opinion.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 10:12pm 
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Reminds me of a bad joke I once heard... this pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel for a belt buckle. The bartender's like, "Alright, I've gotta know... what's the steering wheel for?" The pirate replies, "Arrgghhh… it's driving' me nuts."

;) Warned you it was a bad joke... ;)

No worries, man. 4x12s are just tools, and there are many tools available.

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 10:15pm 
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Homo opinion, speaks volumes hahaha

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 10:18pm 
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ChurchHill wrote:
Reminds me of a bad joke I once heard... this pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel for a belt buckle. The bartender's like, "Alright, I've gotta know... what's the steering wheel for?" The pirate replies, "Arrgghhh… it's driving' me nuts."

;) Warned you it was a bad joke... ;)

No worries, man. 4x12s are just tools, and there are many tools available.


lol. Loved it!

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 10:19pm 
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exo-metal wrote:
Homo opinion, speaks volumes hahaha


:emofag: :grim: :emofag: :grim: :emofag: :grim:

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PostPosted: Sun, Aug 12, 2018 11:00pm 
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Just buy used. A good used 4x12 should go for $400-$500 used, and in good shape. If you can't find one you wan't just be patient something will pop up.

I'm a 4x12 guy, I don't mind moving them around.


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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 2:48am 
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ArE yOu TeLlInG mE tHiS iSnT a GoOd DeAl?

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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 3:00am 
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I enjoy picking up cheap used 412's. I have 5 and they are tons of fun.

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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 5:25am 
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I think both the TS and others have a point.

I've been gigging for almost 10 years with an Engl Pro 4x12 (which are pretty much twice as heavy as a typical Marshall 4x12). Since lifting a 125lbs (yes, not shitting you) cab by yourself can be quite a hassle (even though it fits in the back of my station wagon fine), I hardly bring it out for gigs these days, only when the stage is really big. Most of the time my Mesa Vertical 2x12 sounds just as fine.

As far as stage real-estate goes, a 4x12 is usually still 25% wider than a typical (24" wide) vertical 2x12. In certain bar gigs that can make a difference. But I have gigged with a H&K Tubemeister 18 on the Engl 4x12 as well, because lugging around a 90lbs flightcase (Invader 100, plus hidden compartment for fs, cables, wireless) was also a pain at that point.

Oh well, to each his own. I will say that I typically 'have an opinion' on metal-guitarists that bring a 1x12 cab or combo to a loud show. :confused: :gay: Not only do most 1x12's sound overly middy, they're usually also too directional. That's why to me a vertical slanted 2x12 is the best compromise. And if you do your speaker-mix right, throw in a beam blocker for a V30, it can bring the thump.

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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:36am 
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I have never purchased a single piece of gear or guitar for it's resale value. I got into music as an art form, not as an investment vehicle. The only time I have ever sold gear is for the expressed purpose of getting a better tool for the job.

I personally LOVE 4X12 cabs. I played in a thrash band that used 3 full Marshall stacks on each side of the stage (3 stacks per guitar player). We had so many cabs in the truck that I removed all the gold JCM 800\900 emblems on mine just so we could tell them apart. They are lost and gone forever and guess what, I don't care. I still have my stacks and will never sell. If I were still giging, I'd still have stacks on stage. Once you feel what 16-24\12" Celestion SPK sound and feel like, I don't think there's any going back. My sound through 3 stacks was based on tone, not volume. Many will never hear sound like this or know this feeling. As for an investment, I invest in my sound. Once I have what I want, I stick with it and improve where I can.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who wants to "Get Rid" (as per the "I can't GIVE AWAY my 4x12 Thread) of their Marshall 4X12 cabinets, just let me know, I'll gladly pay the shipping. I have a whole wall in my man-cave dedicated to more stacks.

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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 9:45am 
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The only thing that came anywhere close to the sound of a 4x12 for me was a pair of Mesa Thiele 1x12 spread out. But a PAIR, not one. Most 2x12's I've played don't cut it compared to a good 4x12. I went to a band practice last week and they had a Blackstar 2x12 cab.....sounded like shit. Get a 4x12 for cheap and just hold onto it.

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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 10:32am 
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4x12s are rock n roll. period.

2x12s and smaller are what people settle for when they get old and lazy.

i help our other guitar player load his cab and he helps me, its really not that hard.

a while back i bought a peavey vtm half stack and sold the amp for what i paid for the whole thing. free cab!! gotta love it.

i also really don't think about gear as investment. my 401k, roth IRA and other stocks are investments. gear is a tool i use to have fun playing music. kinda like a set of golf clubs if i played golf. i'm not out there trying to find and buy gear that will appreciate in value if i never abuse it at gigs. if i can't sell a piece of gear i just keep it for when my kids are older.


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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 11:03am 
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I love 4x12's and prefer them over even the "best" 2x12 out there. A cranked amp through a 4x12 is hard to beat. Buy them used at a good price or new (who cares which one), but having a couple good 4x12's is always a good option. They're far from obsolete...

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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 11:21am 
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4x12 all the way! I love picking them up and moving them too... all the time at the gym is for a reason


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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 12:28pm 
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All I know is that my 4x12s will still be going strong long after the OP has upgraded to Axe-Fx5 and his now current Axe-Fx3 is in some electronic disposal landfill site rotting away after reaching its end of life lol !

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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 12:49pm 
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yeah i agree, if i was gigging, i wouldn't want to carry 1 or 15 4x12's anywhere,

i am not even sure if i'd have a tube amp or a cabinet at all, probably just a processor based thingy, idk

the hang on the word investment is pretty silly

the investment isn't in the 4x12 itself from what i read, but in it's usefulness to you as a working or whatever kind of musician you are, not it's inherent value if there's such a thing, or it's value on any market place

if one uses the 4x12 to make 30k from working with said 4x12, then the idea of selling it is the only way to show value is obviously a limited view, you could make 40k potentially from a used crate 4x12 that cost 100 bucks and is worth literally nothing on the market, so yeah

most cars (vast majority) aren't investments, almost none are i guess, but it gets you to work or wherever else, so who cares what it's worth in a market place what it does for you is very important and some of the things it can do is unquantifiable

thanks for the rant/post

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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 1:41pm 
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thegame wrote:
All I know is that my 4x12s will still be going strong long after the OP has upgraded to Axe-Fx5 and his now current Axe-Fx3 is in some electronic disposal landfill site rotting away after reaching its end of life lol !

Not sure if the whole point is 4x12 vs. digital amp emulations...

And to the guy that brought up a Blackstar 2x12; they make some of the thinnest, ball-less sounding 2x12's out there. 0% comparable to an Engl, Diezel or Mesa cab.

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Marshall Lead 100 MOSFET + 1966A & 1966B cabs
Mesa Boogie Mark V:25 + Mesa 1x12 Thiele EVM cab
Roland Jazz Chorus JC-55 combo & JC-120H head
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PostPosted: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 1:48pm 
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I currently have two 4X12's. A beat up 1960B with greenbacks and a Marshall Mode Four MF280 oversized with the V30MF speakers. Can't seem to move the MF280 locally for $400 but I could probably get close to $300 for the speakers. I like the look of having the cab in my jam room anyway so if the speakers sell, the unloaded cab will become furniture.


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