Mesa Mark III Black Dot / No Stripe vs Green Stripe?
- Thread starter jbru91
- Start date
Bram576
Well-known member
Black dot is a great amp. Green more aggressive. Micd up and dialed in properly you’d be hard pressed to even hear many differences between that and a iic+. I know it’s sacrilege to say that around here but it’s true. But to me I either play in a studio setting, or micd up on stage, so that’s what matters to me.
One thing about the mark series is this inherent boxiness too though that’s almost impossible to dial out of the iic+ when it’s dialed in. The iii I think deals with that better in a way. If you listen to it on studio monitors you can hear that in GJgo s video. He does a great job of shooting them out.
Guess that explains why I’m more of a recto guy, to each their own!
One thing about the mark series is this inherent boxiness too though that’s almost impossible to dial out of the iic+ when it’s dialed in. The iii I think deals with that better in a way. If you listen to it on studio monitors you can hear that in GJgo s video. He does a great job of shooting them out.
Guess that explains why I’m more of a recto guy, to each their own!
Racerxrated
Well-known member
The black/no stripe Simul or H amp may have the coveted 105PT, which will make it closer to a C+ than any other version.
I respect Jeremy’s thoughts on any Mark comparison, as he’s had most every version under the sun. But you aren’t going to get a C+ tone without the RP10/11 board, no matter what happens with the clean channel bleeding or not bleeding.
I respect Jeremy’s thoughts on any Mark comparison, as he’s had most every version under the sun. But you aren’t going to get a C+ tone without the RP10/11 board, no matter what happens with the clean channel bleeding or not bleeding.
That C+ boxiness does get annoying. You don’t really notice it til you A/B or play it in a live band context, at which point it becomes very apparent
anomaly
Well-known member
That boxiness you speak of, I think they kinda fixed it on the Mark IVb a bit, as it's more scooped in the 750hz area at a neutral setting or with the graphic EQ off vs a IIC+ or a III. You can really push that 750hz a bit more and not have an annoying honky tone. Plus there seems to be more high mids in the tone, especially with the presence pulled. Also, with the presence pulled you can get away with using a fairly deep V on the graphic and still cut through a mix.
The Mark V on the other hand has those annoying boxy frequencies back, and I'm not sure about the ViI??
journeyman73
Active member
I know what Sykes technically used - but which Mark is closest to his Whitesnake tones?
glpg80
Well-known member
The album was recorded near the end of 85 into 86 which means, If it was a mark iii coliseum, it had to be a black stripe or purple stripe mark iii coliseum.
glpg80
Well-known member
First thing I did was read up on tube placement for my III slot by slot and loaded it with some of the best glass I have. NOS tungstrams V1/V2, a NOS Mesa tube in V3 I pulled out of my 94 tremoverb I flipped, 12AX7WA low gain tube in the reverb only slot, and a balanced sovtek LPS in the PI. It opened up a pit to hell - the amp sounds fantastic.
With how I loaded it tube wise, I find I can turn the onboard reverb on just above 0 to 1 or so and take out the shrill top end without affecting the rest of the sonic spectrum of the amp. It helps balance it out since it’s such a low gain tube but still a 12AX7.
Chubbs
Well-known member
That’s interesting, I tried some rams in all sockets and worked my way down, found I didn’t like the low end flub they had. Much preferred a mullard in v1 followed by the mystery meat groove tube Chinese tubes it came with. That being said my factory bias was way hot which might have contributed to the flub. I’d imagine with a coli you don’t have to worry about low end flub though.
I never put together the reverb and shrill high end though. I always ran it slightly cracked as well as I though it did something special. Now I know I’m not the only one lol.
Chubbs
Well-known member
There’s a video by top jimi discussing this which has some useful info. It’s very difficult to get that sound without additional EQing, and dubble tracking, the right delay/verb, ect. A black stripe or really any stripe with a halfback EV/CL90 cab. The cabs super important. You could probably get there with a mark 2 or 4 with the right cab.
glpg80
Well-known member
Actually because it’s a III++ it’s definitely possible to dial in a ton of gain and low end that all still stays tight and grinding. However the second you get aggressive on the lead drive knob, it all comes crashing down like a house of cards - notes lose definition, amp acts bloated, low end goes to shit. That one knob defines the entire attitude and holds things together. I like it at 5.
That’s cool someone else just cracks the reverb too. That’s why I loaded it with a low gain 12AX7 as to not change the intended bias of the stages, but not add anything from the reverb itself since it’s not exactly a fender twin
glpg80
Well-known member
I was wanting to get vented 75s and EVM12L in some Splawn cabinets - would that be close to the CL90 and EV?
Chubbs
Well-known member
I can’t comment on 75’s as I’ve never played them. Nor have I loaded this combo in a traditional cab, only ever tried it in split back cabs. And I misspoke meant to say the mesa mc90 which are apparently very similar to the cl80’s.
It’s hard to say as the EV’s are super bright and rip your face off and the mc90’s are pretty mellow. The 90’s keep the low to mids thick while the EV adds some bite to the upper mids and trebble. Depends what sound your going for, for me it’s the 87 album and I’d argue the 90’s are more important to get that sound than the EV’s. Especially in the room. That being said you’d probably need to balance things out with a brighter speaker.
GJgo
Well-known member
Blues could be 60, 100 or Simul. Greens we're only Simul. The difference between the green & all Simul amps before the green is that the before amps had the Class A pair wired in Triode, while the green had the Class A pair wired in pentode. This is why the green is more aggressive. Then with the IV and V, you got a pentode / triode switch.
60 & 100 amps are all pentode A/B.
GJgo
Well-known member
Here's that spot where you can REALLY hear it in the C+. To my ears this is why the C+ has the clarity it does compared to all the others. The IIB does it as well to a lesser extent. The III and IV, if the bleed is in there, is much more behind the scenes.
GJgo
Well-known member
Having owned 25-ish Marks- especially in the II and III this is really amp-to-amp variance. Some of them have an annoying boxiness that is very hard to manage, and others are perfect- including a couple different no-EQ ones that sounded tits as-is. Like this C+ SR. If you want to know, when you play the amp turn the EQ off and see if you can get a pleasing sound. Some you can, some you can't. I've only kept "cans".
All JP2C have an unmanageable boxiness though. Modern manufacturing = tighter tolerances. :haha:
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GJgo
Well-known member
The VII is legit. It does not have the various problems the V and JP had including dull tone (V90) and untenable boxiness (JP).