Reactive Loadboxes in 2023

[itsgoodnow]

Literally one guy on here blew his transformer with one.

That’s definitely the most notable. I’ve seen some other issues with people saying they’ve blown fuses using it. Usually when really pushing the amp. I’m not saying it necessarily the TAE in those instances as amp maintenance has to be taken into account. At the time I had one I had 3 wizards and didn’t want to take a chance. One post for reference:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...ht-fuses-pt100se-splawn-and-marshall.2238205/

 

[tallcoolone]

Sounds like one guys' story told by the entire internet. If they blew transformers I'd know by now--like I said I've been using it daily for half a decade. Pete Thorn could use anything and he's touring with 2.

I don't pay much attention to TGP--like 5 guys there actually play guitar

 

[technomancer]

Sounds like one guys' story told by the entire internet. If they blew transformers I'd know by now--like I said I've been using it daily for half a decade. Pete Thorn could use anything and he's touring with 2.

I don't pay much attention to TGP--like 5 guys there actually play guitar

Steve Stevens toured with 2 of them for an entire tour as well

 

[tallcoolone]

I promise I'll let everyone know if I ever have an issue. In the meantime I will continue to not travel with a delay pedal

 

[Arch Stanton]

I don't pay much attention to TGP--like 5 guys there actually play guitar

There were 3 others, but they banned them.

 

[Shask]

I have the Fractal LB-2. I think it does a good job, but it does have a little less bass, and more highs/presence then running straight in. That is probbaly because it mimics Greenbacks though, and I generally like oversized and V30s.

 

[ZEN Amps]

The issue with many loads, is they don't recreate an accurate cab impedance curve. Doesn't mean they will sound 'bad', they just won't be faithful to the real thing.

The Boss, OX box, and Two Notes products fall into this category. My understanding is that they make up the resulting tonal differential via DSP (i.e. digital eq). So the net result is tonally similar to using an accurate load, but in a round about way. This is why they exist as an ecosystem, i.e. you typically wouldn't use the TAE or OX's load into a 3rd party I.R loader - you'll get unpredictable results.

Loads like the Suhr (which is very, very similar to Aiken's design) doesn't need any post processing for it to work well with any properly created I.R.

Many have argued that it's much safer for an amp to see a properly designed load, rather than one with a generic U-shape. There's no agreement on this, although there is anecdotal evidence as mentioned already in this thread it could lead to problems.

Interestingly, Pete Thorn has (as recently as last month) been quite vocal about the potential dangers of the Boss, so I'm quite surprised he is using them live. I haven't watch the video - is the TAE taking the full load of a big amp, or is integrated into a more complex setup, maybe running in parallel for FX or something?

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...-waza-tube-amp-expander.2480430/post-37292670

EDIT: in this thread he mentions running the resonance control at minimum to ensure no issues. The curves in post #50 sure are interesting.

 

[tallcoolone]

The issue with many loads, is they don't recreate an accurate cab impedance curve. Doesn't mean they will sound 'bad', they just won't be faithful to the real thing.

The Boss, OX box, and Two Notes products fall into this category.

Well, I've been playing for 30+ years and I own and use the thing. With my amps. If it wasn't "faithful" I can assure you it would have gone back immediately.

 

[dcburn]

Have heard great things about the Suhr and the Captor is pretty darn popular too.

Wish I could help more with your PS2 question.
I absolutely love the attenuation!
Also, I use the loop as well for my JTM45 and have zero complaints there as well.

 

[nightlight]

Ok, the idea of blowing one of my amps is really, really scary, as there are no good amp techs where I live. I know absolutely nothing about it, but if Pete Thorn and John Suhr are saying it’s a danger, I would be extremely cautious.

Of course, it could just be them trying to deepsix a competing product. Why would Thorn use it otherwise? Classic FUD.

I’m now wondering if a good middle ground would be to connect my Fryette to a cab with the attenuation turned down, while feeding the signal to my DAW. I’m guessing this would be the “perfect” impedance curve of my Orange 2x12” with English Celestion V30s that my IRs will play well with, or the Emperor 4x12” with Eminence Governors and Tonkers.

The only question is whether running my amps hot with maximum attenuation just so I can get a decent level signal into my DAW is suicidal.

Again, the concern would be excessive wear and tear on the tubes (which are extremely hard/costly to replace out here due to 40% customs, countervailing duty and cess) though I doubt a transformer would blow.

 

[ners]

Pete Thorn shit talking the TAE, using one anyway, and being sponsored by Suhr (who has been the only vocal but knowledgeable person bringing this topic up-but also a direct competitor)...not a great look.

Really wish there was some more info official info around all this.

 

[Dave M]

3 others,

 

[Arch Stanton]

 

[thegame]

I built my own, based on Randall Aiken's designs.

The design's impedance curve is identical to a Marshall 1960A cabinet, loaded with 4x12's.

That must be a HUGE cabinet

 

[Arch Stanton]

That must be a HUGE cabinet

No.

The reactive load I built is designed to handle 500W, hence the size & power rating of the components.

 

[Greazygeo]

I would stick with the Fryette and work with it.

 

[mnemonic]

Pete Thorn shit talking the TAE, using one anyway, and being sponsored by Suhr (who has been the only vocal but knowledgeable person bringing this topic up-but also a direct competitor)...not a great look.

Really wish there was some more info official info around all this.

A lot of knowledgable people, especially those with their businesses attached to their name, will be reluctant to bring up issues with products, since no matter how it’s presented the brand fanatics will come out of the woodwork to attack them.

In some of the long form YouTube interviews and podcasts you can usually find them pussyfooting less around their thoughts, probably because less people see that, than a post on tgp.

The impedence curve plots are out there for pretty much every major load box available so you can look and see how much it resembles a real speaker cab load. I personally wouldn’t use a TAE, captor, or ox, as they don’t resemble actual speaker loads. I don’t expect it’s a danger if you run the master volume at a reasonable level, but it’s pretty easy to crank stuff up way higher than we ever could in a room, when using a load.

Does the different shaped load matter enough to change the sound? That depends a lot on the amp and how damped the power section is.

 

[Arch Stanton]

A lot of knowledgable people, especially those with their businesses attached to their name, will be reluctant to bring up issues with products, since no matter how it’s presented the brand fanatics will come out of the woodwork to attack them.

In some of the long form YouTube interviews and podcasts you can usually find them pussyfooting less around their thoughts, probably because less people see that, than a post on tgp.

The impedence curve plots are out there for pretty much every major load box available so you can look and see how much it resembles a real speaker cab load. I personally wouldn’t use a TAE, captor, or ox, as they don’t resemble actual speaker loads. I don’t expect it’s a danger if you run the master volume at a reasonable level, but it’s pretty easy to crank stuff up way higher than we ever could in a room, when using a load.

Does the different shaped load matter enough to change the sound? That depends a lot on the amp and how damped the power section is.

 

[ZEN Amps]

The Devil is in the details guys, and it seems like a touchy subject for some reason.

I shouldn't have posted at all until I read more about Thorn's comments, which make sense when all context is considered. His remarks aren't conspiratorial once you look deeper, sounds to me like he's just relaying some pretty solid technical advice from Suhr.

In a nutshell, the concern is really the TAE's resonance control. The graph below shows how extreme this is when dialled up. The narrow, LF resonance peak typically seen in a real cab (or faithful reactive load) is now a broad shelf below 100Hz in the 50-100Ω range. For reference, an axe in drop D with a beefy amp will be putting out plenty of level at 70Hz.

Fact is most TAE users have obviously never had an issue, and like the way these units sound. All good, no one can tell you that you're wrong.

From a technical standpoint though, I think Suhr's concerns are pretty valid...and worth discussing. Yes, he clearly has a dog in the fight, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

Here's a terrible, hypothetical analogy you can pick apart. A friend is running his amp's 4Ω output into a 16Ω cab. It probably won't cause issues, and he likes the way it sounds. Does that mean you're wrong or technically off-base to raise the issue?

Personally I'm more concerned with any detrimental effect on an output transformer over time, rather than an instant failure. This is an area that we'll unlikely ever see data on though.

 

[tallcoolone]

The Devil is in the details guys, and it seems like a touchy subject for some reason.

The only reason I found an issue with your post was that you stated something as fact that I do not find to be true at all:

The issue with many loads, is they don't recreate an accurate cab impedance curve. Doesn't mean they will sound 'bad', they just won't be faithful to the real thing.

The Boss, OX box, and Two Notes products fall into this category.

I’ve run at least a dozen amps through the TAE that I know backwards and forwards. I assume Steve Stevens and Pete Thorn also are aware how their amps are supposed to sound and also are looking for load boxes that are “faithful to the real thing”. I’ve seen dozens of major acts with Ox boxes on stage. What you said is just wrong man.