MESA/Boogie® Mark IIC+ full demo & overview ft. Doug West & Tommy Waugh

[Wizard of Ozz]

It could very well be a thing, I’ve just never once heard the term “amp break in” or anyone say I’m gonna wait for a new amp to wear in till two hours ago in this thread. Someone now needs to buy a new amp, record a di track, record a clip brand new, leave the amp on for a few days strait then do another di clip to get to the bottom of this lol

Electronic components do change over time.
Caps drift, resistors no longer hold the same value off resistance, or fail, etc etc... but that's over a long period of time. Not 1 or 2 years.

The OG Mark 2C+ amps are 40 years old. Even after a new electro cap job, you can hear a difference. But they still sound similar. I have 60 year old Marshalls which also prove this as well.

The point that amps will "break-in" or change sound over a period of time... is true... but this period of time can be 20 - 30 years or more.
I think the issue is the modern build methods, parts, solder, wire, transformers, etc etc have more to do with the end product than anything else.

Randall Smith said the same himself before selling Mesa. If reissuing a Mark IIC+ was so easy... RS would have done it years ago. He stated himself it can't be done for these same reasons.

Also a lot of the amp hiss squeal noise people are complaining of is due to the shit tubes they ship with. Take out the those shit tubes, smash them with a hammer and replace with some quality, tested NOS glass.

Short version: If an amp sounds like ass or not how it should... I sell it or return it. It don't stick it in the closet to marinade for 30 years and hope the sound will improve.

 

[ultimatemetalguitartones]

Electronic components do change over time.
Caps drift, resistors no longer hold the same value off resistance, or fail, etc etc... but that's over a long period of time. Not 1 or 2 years.

The OG Mark 2C+ amps are 40 years old. Even after a new electro cap job, you can hear a difference. But they still sound similar. I have 60 year old Marshalls which also prove this as well.

The point that amps will "break-in" or change sound over a period of time... is true... but this period of time can be 20 - 30 years or more.
I think the issue is the modern build methods, parts, solder, wire, transformers, etc etc have more to do with the end product than anything else.

Randall Smith said the same himself before selling Mesa. If reissuing a Mark IIC+ was so easy... RS would have done it years ago. He stated himself it can't be done for these same reasons.

Also a lot of the amp hiss squeal noise people are complaining of is due to the shit tubes they ship with. Take out the those shit tubes, smash them with a hammer and replace with some quality, tested NOS glass.

Short version: If an amp sounds like ass or not how it should... I sell it or return it. It don't stick it in the closet to marinade for 30 years and hope the sound will improve.

Ditto

 

[stephen sawall]

The reissue sounds better to me in the clips than the original.

A blind test would be less subjective.

 

[endofall]

 

[jasonP]

@glpg80 check it out, how they tried to fix the noise issue with the layout with the shield to ground over the cap by the lead drive pot.

 

[thegame]

Mesa Rev 5 2G 2C? Conspiracy theorists, and I know there’s a lot of you out there, go!

 

[SonVolt]

@glpg80 check it out, how they tried to fix the noise issue with the layout with the shield to ground over the cap by the lead drive pot.

Is that a good thing?

 

[thegame]

Is that a good thing?

If that is what it is, yes it’s a good thing they tried to fix it. It’s a bad thing that they had to try and fix it though.

 

[midnightlaundry]

Hogy = Holger Notzel : Komet Amps... bearded duded here: http://www.kometamps.com/about-komet

John Suhr = TGP Username: Husky

Yer right, thanks!

 

[glpg80]

@glpg80 check it out, how they tried to fix the noise issue with the layout with the shield to ground over the cap by the lead drive pot.

 

[glpg80]

Is that a good thing?

The layout is shit and the board needs rev’d. Could be an issue with the circuit design but hard to tell.

 

[Vader99]

apologies if this has been discussed previously, but Zzounds video title kinda says it all - they’re clearly not dialing it in the ‘preferred’ way in order to appeal to a wider audience

 

[SonVolt]

The layout is shit and the board needs rev’d. Could be an issue with the circuit design but hard to tell.

Why is the layout shit?

 

[glpg80]

Why is the layout shit?

Because the amps unstable and has a stupid attempt at a solution to try to shield a capacitor using copper tape. I speculated there was a layout issue and I was correct. I’m going to speculate there’s probably other things that are causing instability issues they either aren’t aware of or have not found.

To everyone saying the settings shouldn’t be set to cause it - if original ones in the 80’s do it that’s one thing, but with a chance to fix all issues there’s zero excuse to have the same problems again in 2024.

 

[SonVolt]

Is there a known issue with the reissues being noisy? Now that I think about it, I have heard some unusual squealing on some clips posted to Facebook.

 

[endofall]

Well, so far I’m loving mine. Yes it oscillates at extreme settings but Mesa has warned this was possible on the mark iii, the mark iv and i want to say even the V. Several others have posted online that their originals do it as well. Seems to be a crap shoot as to which original models do and do not. Realistically 40 years of component drift could also account for those that don’t. Not making excuses, cause honestly I wish it didn’t but doesn’t change the fact that it sounds great.

Also here is a OG vs the new model, I wanted to crop these into one picture but this works.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Because the amps unstable and has a stupid attempt at a solution to try to shield a capacitor using copper tape. I speculated there was a layout issue and I was correct. I’m going to speculate there’s probably other things that are causing instability issues they either aren’t aware of or have not found.

To everyone saying the settings shouldn’t be set to cause it - if original ones in the 80’s do it that’s one thing, but with a chance to fix all issues there’s zero excuse to have the same problems again in 2024.

As a reminder... the video where the guy showed the amp squealing had his master volume on 8 out of 10. Absolutely no serious guitar player runs a Mark series master volume on 8. It's just not that kind of amp. If there is oscillation with the Master volume at normal settings, then yeah that's not great, but do we know if that's the case?

For the record, I have a Mark IV revB long chassis and a Mark V:25, and neither one of those amps oscillate with the Gain and Treble maxed with the Master at non-extreme settings. I just tweaked around on the IV and to get self oscillation, I had to turn both drives to 10, Treble to 10, Master to 8, AND the channel volume to about 8. Even just turning the Channel volume down a bit resolved the issue.

This was also the case when I owned a Mark IIB. I cranked both drives and the Treble on that amp all the time and never got oscillation because I only ran the Master to the absolutely deafening setting of about 3-4 which was still easily loud enough to stand out in a live band.

In short, in my experience, you won't get self oscillation on these amps unless you pretty much go out of your way to dial them like an asshole.

Maybe this is a symptom of everybody having reactive loads and reampers now. Maybe it's easier to just not realize how hard people are actually pushing their amps when they crank that volume knob. Reactive load tech is invaluable and in my opinion it basically saved big amps existing as a concept in the modern world, but people should still be aware of what is actually happening in their gear when they twist the knobs.

 

[endofall]

As a reminder... the video where the guy showed the amp squealing had his master volume on 8 out of 10. Absolutely no serious guitar player runs a Mark series master volume on 8. It's just not that kind of amp. If there is oscillation with the Master volume at normal settings, then yeah that's not great, but do we know if that's the case?

For the record, I have a Mark IV revB long chassis and a Mark V:25, and neither one of those amps oscillate with the Gain and Treble maxed with the Master at non-extreme settings. I just tweaked around on the IV and to get self oscillation, I had to turn both drives to 10, Treble to 10, Master to 8, AND the channel volume to about 8. Even just turning the Channel volume down a bit resolved the issue.

This was also the case when I owned a Mark IIB. I cranked both drives and the Treble on that amp all the time and never got oscillation because I only ran the Master to the absolutely deafening setting of about 3-4 which was still easily loud enough to stand out in a live band.

In short, in my experience, you won't get self oscillation on these amps unless you pretty much go out of your way to dial them like an asshole.

Maybe this is a symptom of everybody having reactive loads and reampers now. Maybe it's easier to just not realize how hard people are actually pushing their amps when they crank that volume knob. Reactive load tech is invaluable and in my opinion it basically saved big amps existing as a concept in the modern world, but people should still be aware of what is actually happening in their gear when they twist the knobs.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Ok now we're getting somewhere. However that's still in "louder than balls" territory.

How about this. Set the Volume 1, Lead Drive, and Treble controls fully cranked to 10, Now, adjusting both the Master 1 and Lead Master controls for maximum volume without squeal, how loud can you get the amp without it self-oscillating?

 

[endofall]

Ok now we're getting somewhere. However that's still in "louder than balls" territory.

Howe about this. Set the Volume 1, Lead Drive, and Treble controls fully cranked to 10, Now, adjusting both the Master 1 and Lead Master controls for maximum volume without squeal, how loud can you get the amp without it self-oscillating?