Headfirst Alta or Ground zero Hellion or Wizard

[GuitarManTim]

At the time I needed the money, so I sold it, but I regretted it. I actually just bought a new revision 2 Alta directly from Jason. It’s awesome.

What all amps do you currently own and how does the alta compare? Do you feel it can get tight thrash tones and looser alice in chains or tool sounds just as well?

 

[fusedbrain]

.......The feel of the amp is just as important to me as the tone......

.........I love my jcm 800 but sometimes I wish it had a little more sag or squish in the bottom end for certain sounds. ...

Haven't played an Alta or a Helion, but I have owned 2 Wizards.....
The Wizard "thing" is an incredibly hard, punchy, dry and in your face sound and feel.
There aren't many other amps that do "that thing", and that's why they are loved by many......
If you are looking for sag and squish, I would look elsewhere.
Also didn't think the master vol was that great on either amp. ( an MCIi and an MTL )

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Do you feel that with the zener diodes it get close to the feel and compression of a really cranked Plexi on the alta? I love my jcm 800 but sometimes I wish it had a little more sag or squish in the bottom end for certain sounds. And thank you again for detailed descriptions and I'll definitely do some research on the loyalist. You, pipboy and craggin are actually the main people that made me want an alta from posts lol.

If your JCM800 doesn't have enough sag/squish I'd steer clear of any Wizard. They're even harder/more direct in the lows, no give at all really. You can saturate them quite nicely with ODs and get good compression, which they lack as well, but the low end is still direct/firm, maybe even could say a tad stiff. There's no sag whatsoever.

 

[rsm]

Bogner Helios Eclipse is worth a look.

It was my choice for a modded Marshall.

 

[GuitarManTim]

If your JCM800 doesn't have enough sag/squish I'd steer clear of any Wizard. They're even harder/more direct in the lows, no give at all really. You can saturate them quite nicely with ODs and get good compression, which they lack as well, but the low end is still direct/firm, maybe even could say a tad stiff. There's no sag whatsoever.

I don't have to have sag or squish i suppose I'll probably buy a jtm45 for those looser vintage sounds someday. I'd much rather have an amp that can get a little sag but able to get really tight than an amp that can get alot of sag but can't really get tight. Sag don't work well with my metal playing imo too weird feeling. But it would nice to have for some of the vintage tones I enjoy. Maybe someone should build an amp that excels in sag and looseness and call it the GILF lol.

 

[Dino 939]

Cut right to the damn chase .
Neither of those will be in the same caliber as that Wizard & damn well shouldn’t considering price.
Wizards are much higher quality in materials and construction which is most important for dudes really putting these to work.
Their fucking beasts man.
A wimp can’t even look at a Wizard and walk away the same.

Honestly, I’d exercise patience and custom order a mega-monster from either 3.
Depending on how deep the pocketbook is
and how important tone/feel in dollars is worth it.
A Wizard can get you fucking divorced, oh yes it can.
And if not careful can getcha’ in a bit of a financial pickle on resale so be very careful being a high gain tough guy…HGTG.
It’s also not very Rock & Rol either..unless you’re a Wizard signed Artist.
LTFOL!!!
Cheers!

 

[Racerxrated]

Wizards are very open/raw/NO compression whatsoever...yet, they have great feel also. I've had a MTL 50, and an MC 100. One way to add some compression is to boost it; the MTL didn't care for the boost and took away from the tone IMO. The MC 100, did take my boost pedal well and by boosting it added the perfect amount of compression for some 'squish'.

No amp punches as hard as that MC100 I had; with my 72 Superlead almost there with the Wizard but the Marshall doesn't have the big low end the MC100 had.

Heard great things about the Alta/Ground Zero amps too; just haven't played one to be able to compare to the Wizards I've had.

 

[ners]

I've got a Hellion and a Wizard MCII, both are keepers. I don't have an Alta but that one sounds most true to a Marshall from the clips I've heard.

The Wizard is very clearly a modified Jubilee, so it's a question of how close to a Plexi you really want (given those influences you mentioned). Needs a boost for metal, though the Pull Shift on new models helps a lot (personally I wouldn't use it for anything more than hard rock). Fantastic amp, would never pay new prices for one though.

Hellion has 3 main voicings: Vintage JTMish, classic JCMish, and Modern. I mostly use the modern setting for chugging but the other voicings could do a convincing lower gain tone. Probably excels more at higher gain but, fuck, it's got so many knobs and switches it could also be an amazing low gain amp and I'd never know.

 

[pipboy90]

What all amps do you currently own and how does the alta compare? Do you feel it can get tight thrash tones and looser alice in chains or tool sounds just as well?

I have a Mesa Tremoverb, Mark IV, Bogner 101A, Mezzabarba Trinity and the Alta. The Alta has the most Marshall DNA out of all of my amps. It can absolutely do tight thrash stuff and looser AiC or Tool tones. It's super versatile and matches the Bogner or the Mark IV in terms of versatility. I think you'd love it.

 

[gritstogroats]

Never played a wizard.
Ground zero is my my list but I don't think its quite my marshall fix.

I was deciding between waiting for an Alta and an evil joe. I personally didn't need all the midi stuff. And the evil joe covers more ground. Id recommend headfirst in general. But for marshall sounds absolutely. Evil joe in particular. It just covers so much ground for marshall to modern imo hard to beat.

I have a Mesa Tremoverb, Mark IV, Bogner 101A, Mezzabarba Trinity and the Alta. The Alta has the most Marshall DNA out of all of my amps. It can absolutely do tight thrash stuff and looser AiC or Tool tones. It's super versatile and matches the Bogner or the Mark IV in terms of versatility. I think you'd love it.

 

[RedB4Black]

hmm, Matt would have the latest iteration I imagine. Now you planted a bug in my ear, I need to give her a rip tonight.

It’s the latest version. Originally had KT66, but I put in KT77s… more for something (my MTL is KT66) different and Jeremy recommended. I mostly play in the vintage mode with a boost. Much more raw and aggressive that way. Not sure if Chris messed with my settings much. I find there’s enough ways to tweak the Hellion for just about any type of tone. It doesn’t have the same low end rumble as my Wizards so when comparing side by side it can seem lacking in that department. I got a Gup Tech Quebec recently and that helps get the low end on par with the Wizards

 

[rsm]

looks like this is a good time to mention the "infamous" Marshall JCM 900 Model 2100 SL-X with 5881's.




very happy with mine. FWIW.

 

[PiggySmallz]

I didnt get low mids from the hellion at all. I couldnt dial low end into the thing personally. But it is a very good sounding amp.

The wizards are pretty special both in sound and feel.

I havent played the alta, but it seems like it may be a good option for op just because of versatility.

The type of music isnt really the type i would go for any of these amps for, but maybe they can do it.

It's the same for mine. It's not a bad thing and definitely has plenty of low mids, it's just tighter than my triple rectifier. It doesn't have the sag that causes that deep rumble from a 4x12. I can't stop playing it though, absolutely love that amp. When I want to shake the walls from loose lows then I switch to my rectifier. They'd probably sound massive together in a mix.

 

[Smash]

It's the same for mine. It's not a bad thing and definitely has plenty of low mids, it's just tighter than my triple rectifier. It doesn't have the sag that causes that deep rumble from a 4x12. I can't stop playing it though, absolutely love that amp. When I want to shake the walls from loose lows then I switch to my rectifier. They'd probably sound massive together in a mix.

They would. I played a dual rec with my mgl, and it was INSANE

 

[MetalHeadMike]

I don't have to have sag or squish i suppose I'll probably buy a jtm45 for those looser vintage sounds someday. I'd much rather have an amp that can get a little sag but able to get really tight than an amp that can get alot of sag but can't really get tight. Sag don't work well with my metal playing imo too weird feeling. But it would nice to have for some of the vintage tones I enjoy. Maybe someone should build an amp that excels in sag and looseness and call it the GILF lol.

The Wizards can get great compression boosted, but still no sag. Still feel good to play and super rewarding when your playing is on point. Another one I'd recommend is a GZ MOAB+ on an old JMP or JCM800. All the open, raw, uncompressed goodness Wizards have in spades if you want it, but then goes from there to any level of compression and gain you'd ever want and everything in between. Little more forgiving low end response, still not a lot of sag but maybe more than Wizards depending on settings. Also, every bit as articulate/defined, and wicked punch/girth right there next to any Wizard.

 

[Ryan990]

The Wizards can get great compression boosted, but still no sag. Still feel good to play and super rewarding when your playing is on point. Another one I'd recommend is a GZ MOAB+ on an old JMP or JCM800. All the open, raw, uncompressed goodness Wizards have in spades if you want it, but then goes from there to any level of compression and gain you'd ever want and everything in between. Little more forgiving low end response, still not a lot of sag but maybe more than Wizards depending on settings. Also, every bit as articulate/defined, and wicked punch/girth right there next to any Wizard.

I swear to christ, every time I read about a MOAB+ I ask myself why I haven't bought one yet. They sound killer.

 

[GuitarManTim]

The Wizards can get great compression boosted, but still no sag. Still feel good to play and super rewarding when your playing is on point. Another one I'd recommend is a GZ MOAB+ on an old JMP or JCM800. All the open, raw, uncompressed goodness Wizards have in spades if you want it, but then goes from there to any level of compression and gain you'd ever want and everything in between. Little more forgiving low end response, still not a lot of sag but maybe more than Wizards depending on settings. Also, every bit as articulate/defined, and wicked punch/girth right there next to any Wizard.

I'm starting to wonder if there's something wrong with my jcm800 It's really dark and loose when cranked but not much sag at the same time. It's super bright at low volumes of course but when cranked it seems it's way darker than most jcm800s I'm pretty sure it still has a bright cap idk... I'm usually sort of treble sensitive and picky about amps so I always thought it was weird my jcm800 was kind of dark when getting power amp distortion even with pre amp gain at like 6 and the mids are more nasal than punchy.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

I'm starting to wonder if there's something wrong with my jcm800 It's really dark and loose when cranked but not much sag at the same time. It's super bright at low volumes of course but when cranked it seems it's way darker than most jcm800s I'm pretty sure it still has a bright cap idk... I'm usually sort of treble sensitive and picky about amps so I always thought it was weird my jcm800 was kind of dark when getting power amp distortion even with pre amp gain at like 6 and the mids are more nasal than punchy.

That doesn't sound right, that amp should cut your head off at volume I'd think. The GZ MOAB+ mod would take that amp to a level that would leave you in disbelief.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

I swear to christ, every time I read about a MOAB+ I ask myself why I haven't bought one yet. They sound killer.

I grabbed another Wizard to A/B specifically because of disbelief as to how good the MOAB+ is. Wizards are my benchmark for open/raw/organic/uncompressed tone and the MOAB+ is right there but of course with the Marshall voicing, but then it can go from the most open, natural, raw, insanely aggressive sounds/feel to the most beautifully gained out compressed but still organic sounding tone/feel and everything in between at the turn & push/pull of some knobs and flip of some switches.

I've owned a lot of amps, a lot, and the MOAB+ has become the best amp I've ever owned. I want to try a Sniper modded JMP.

 

[Ryan990]

I grabbed another Wizard to A/B specifically because of disbelief as to how good the MOAB+ is. Wizards are my benchmark for open/raw/organic/uncompressed tone and the MOAB+ is right there but of course with the Marshall voicing, but then it can go from the most open, natural, raw, insanely aggressive sounds/feel to the most beautifully gained out compressed but still organic sounding tone/feel and everything in between at the turn & push/pull of some knobs and flip of some switches.

I've owned a lot of amps, a lot, and the MOAB+ has become the best amp I've ever owned. I want to try a Sniper modded JMP.

I have a sniper mod 59 HW that absolutely slays. It's the only other amp that I've played that rivals my Wizards in overall thump. I think a MOAB+ would balance out my other amps. Every now and then I want something that is a little more compressed and greasy under my fingers and I think the MOAB+ would scratch the itch.