Anyone else find modelers/sims uninspiring?

7704A

7704A

Well-known member
Trying to give 'em a fair shake as I figure out a rig for a possible silent-stage gig tryout (lame, I know). For a number of reasons I'm leaning towards a reactive load + IRs instead of modelers (e.g., keeping the rig as repairable and mod-able as possible, a Power Station is useful for more than just a lame silent stage setup, etc.), but still trying to see where modelers are today. Tried the Bogren AmpKnob, and it sounded good but the experience was missing something. Though, the latency issues with my system made it hard to tell. Went to GC and queued up a 2204 and Tube Screamer on a Helix (through headphones), and that also felt incomplete despite not having latency issues. Plugging into my 4104, I usually get lost just noodling and having fun and often play for longer than I originally intended. Even happens with it mic'd and through headphones, though it's not as good. With the Helix, despite fooling around for a half-hour, I didn't experience that. Maybe it's all in my head. At least, I need some better tests that won't be as affected by what I expect to experience as a tube fan.

Anyone else experience and/or overcome the same thing?
 
I prefer the Kemper and Axe FX as far as modelers. YMMV

Never been a huge helix fan (for the amp models, I think the effects sound really good) and never tried a quad cortex.

It's definitely worth trying out a kemper or axe system with some great sounding captures on them.
 
The vast majority of the time I play, I use Nano Cortex captures of my fav amps (2204, Rectifier). The real amps somehow are more fun, but I couldnt really explain why. The captures sound very good and the convenience is undeniable.

I can footswitch between 2204 low in put, double boosted hi input, and boosted Recto. Add delay to the 2204 without needing an FX loop mod. I can add an IR and record direct. Etc etc.
 
I haven´t had a modeler since the original Axe-FX Ultra and probably won´t go that route again any time soon, so I´m not really up to speed here, but yes - modelers are boring. Whether that has anything to do with the actual sound and feel of them, or if I just want to play my amps (thru a Reactive Load and Bluguitar IRs)... that´s another story. I don´t have a reason to use modelers, but if I did I obviously might think differently for practical reasons.
 
I've owned most of the great hardware modellers from the late '80s through to the Kemper era except for Fractal, Helix & QC.

With the caveat that I haven't tried the 3 mentioned above, the Kempers are in a league of their own when it comes to "natural", "organic" tones and responsiveness. It's like they're alive.

So yeah, if it weren't for Kemper, I'd have agreed with the OP 100%.
 
I'm as old school as you can get (was always an amp/4x12 guy), but I have to say the Kemper has a great feel to it. Not 100% but it definitely can get you to play inspired with a good profile. I've had days where I lost hours & got into the zone with it (mind you, through a 4x12, not a silent stage - but at manageable volumes)
Having said that, it is great to just plug into an FM3, AX8, or similar with headphones when you just want to noodle.

I am also working my way through a QC right now, since so many of my friends have sworn how much better than the others they are.. jury is still out...

I think I am going to profile & capture my ENGL Artist, Marshall 2555SL, and my Peavey 5150 combo to see if the Kemper or QC does it better.

I also think some of it may be in your head/expectations, as you see the silent stage gig as lame... you're not going to be moving air & interacting with the bass & drums the same way, so by default, it won't be as inspiring.

Good luck!
 
None of them will compare to moving air, but they aren't so bad. They are just a tool. I primarily play through a Suhr reactive load + IRs because if I didn't I would never have time to play when the house isn't asleep. I do have a nano cortex and honestly yeah, its inspiring with the right capture and the onboard effects are good. I will say a huge portion of your experience is in the headphones though. A relatively inexpensive pair of open back cans will make huge difference.

I'll show myself out... :salute:
 
No.

I'm not trying to cop authentic amp tones. I'm trying to get tones I think sound good. Having a modeler gives me a starting point for the tone I'm after and can then tweak to taste. It's endless sonic inspiration for me. I play more since having one.

And as for moving air, that has nothing to do with tubes. Play louder ... If you can't play loud, you won't move air, unless of course your box fan runs on tubes...
 
They are tools. I love moving air through a 412 with a 100-watt amp. It is a drug that is hard to beat. However, the reality is that more and more venues are requiring stage volume levels to come down. I have had very good results with both Kemper and the Quad Cortex. I have also gotten good results with the Fractal units- though I find I spend way too much time editing on a Fractal.

I captured my 5150 III into my QC and have been using a Laney LFR212 cab. It's not a 100-watt tube half stack, but it gets the job done. And no one in the audience can tell the difference. In the clip below, I am using my QC, the bass player is using a Kemper Stage and the other guitarist is using a Fractal FM9.

 
GOHOINC said:
No.

I'm not trying to cop authentic amp tones. I'm trying to get tones I think sound good. Having a modeler gives me a starting point for the tone I'm after and can then tweak to taste. It's endless sonic inspiration for me. I play more since having one.

And as for moving air, that has nothing to do with tubes. Play louder ... If you can't play loud, you won't move air, unless of course your box fan runs on tubes...
Click to expand...
Cool that you dig yours. It's all about what's right for each of us, that's the bottom line.

Curious though, have you run your modeler through a tube power amp? Long ago I had an AX8 and picked up a powered FRFR monitor, and had a Mesa S400 as well in a small WDW rack. Big difference for the better running through the Strategy.
Sold the Fractal, haven't been back since. But, I do keep a Peavey Classic 60/60 around for a possible future modeler. I'd never sell my tube amps though. But I may add a modeler at some point.
 
In a mix they sound great and im not sure I can tell the difference. Maybe id like an axe fx but the neural plug-ins I have all sound/feel sterile. Very convenient and theyre easy to fire up for practice or late at night but when I want the goods, I fire up the tubes. The plug-ins have a weird gain structure and response in the mids that I remember from my old line 6 solid state days back in the 90s.
 
Most of the issues people have with modeling isn’t the modeling it is the way they are monitoring it. Also, one of the biggest digital drawbacks is UI—it is easy to get terrible sounds out of these things and unless you know what you are doing that’s probably what will happen. I’m as big an amp whore as most here but a good modeler in the right hands can sound and feel fantastic.
 
SFW said:
However, the reality is that more and more venues are requiring stage volume levels to come down.
Click to expand...
I've found that gigs with owners/managers who are anal about stage volume also pay the worst and treat the bands the shittiest so they are warning signs that tell me that "I'm sorry, your venue isn't a good fit for our band", LOL. I guess I've moved past playing for $250-300 per night+2 free beers at multi million dollar establishments.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top