MetalHeadMike
Well-known member
Dat headshell...yes!
JohnnyGtar
Well-known member
Man, I think that's definitely the way to go. Magnet swaps can change things, too.
Smash
Hack
Try Wagner Ironman pickups, they will push your amp in the best way
BABMusic
Well-known member
I just swapped out my Friedman humbucker for a Duncan Pegasus. It's definitely a lot better in terms of tightness, which is what I want. The gain however, didn't really increase much at all. I was also surprised how dark the DSL and Dual Rectifiers sounded with the Pegasus.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
The Pegasus isn't a high-output pickup.
BABMusic
Well-known member
Oh really? What would the minimum resistance level be for a high output humbucker?
MetalHeadMike
Well-known member
I've had an Ironman bridge in a guitar for about 5 years and like it but recently got a couple new guitars with Lundgren The One in the first and Lundgren Black Heaven in the other and they make the Ironman sound weak as hell. These pups made me realize there's actually not much push from the Ironman, pretty low output and mild compared to the Lundgren. They crunch up way more also.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
Is the Pegasus hotter than a PAF? Sure. Is it a "high output" pickup? I wouldn't call it that. The resistance you measure on a pickup is merely a correlation to its actual output. Having owned two Pegasus pickups, I'd say it's not even as hot as a JB. But what do I know.
Seymour Duncan even calls the Pegasus a "medium output" humbucker. And yes... it's rather dark.
JohnnyGtar
Well-known member
I had one of the later models, and those are the ones to get because they have more gain than the earlier ones. Bone stock. Sounded freakin' amazing. Several friends who played through it wanted to buy it. Had to sell it. Man, I miss it. Best amp I've ever owned.
I asked AI about those amps. Here's the reply:
"The Marshall JCM 800 Model 2205 amps were produced from 1982 to 1989. These were part of Marshall’s first dual-channel designs, offering both clean and overdriven tones, along with features like spring reverb and an effects loop—pretty forward-thinking for the time.
Early models (1982–1984) had a different EQ layout and circuit design, which received mixed reviews. Around 1985, Marshall redesigned the circuit to improve gain structure and reduce channel bleed, making the later versions more popular among players seeking that classic '80s rock tone. If you're eyeing one, the mid-to-late '80s versions tend to be the sweet spot."
JohnnyGtar
Well-known member
If you want a bit more more power and more highs than the Pegasus, the Duncan Custom (SH-5 is Gibson spacing) or (TB-5 Fender spacing) might be just what you're looking for. Those pickups have ceramic magnets. Duncan says they sound like" a PAF on steroids".
Info: https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/duncan-custom
Also, @JackBootedThug is a big fan of the Duncan Custom 5 which is the same wind as the Custom but uses an Alnico 5 magnet.
Info: https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/custom-5
The search for good tone can be the rabbit hole from hell. LOL
Info: https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/duncan-custom
Also, @JackBootedThug is a big fan of the Duncan Custom 5 which is the same wind as the Custom but uses an Alnico 5 magnet.
Info: https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/custom-5
The search for good tone can be the rabbit hole from hell. LOL
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BABMusic
Well-known member
I played a few minutes today with the Pegasus. It is a really nice sounding humbucker. I love that it's tight and crisp, but not like the Pearly Gates. Has very good string clarity with chords. I wish it just had a little more gain. Lke if it's on 10 now, I wish it went to 12. I may just have to go back to using a boost. The damn Mark IV has gotten me used to not using a boost.
C
Caca_Spaniel_123
Member
1. Two of the humbucker guitars I am using are low-output alnico pickups (around 8 K in resistance). Perhaps this is why I don't feel the BE50 as having enough gain? It seems wrong that I have to have the gain structure on high and the SAT switch on and he the gain cranked to get the tone I want.
-> The BE amps are high gain, but not THAT high gain. It’s more of the cranked plexi type of high gain, and for that it has plenty of gain on tap. You can literally play metal on it with teles and strats.
Try adjusting the height of the pickups to around 2.5mm(4/64”) from the pole pieces to the bottom of the E strings while pressing down the last fret, this is a good starting point for most pups. You can do up as much as 1.5mm for more volume, see if you like your gear this way.
3. Should I just buy new humbuckers first before trying a new amp?
-> No, if your amp has enough gain on tap(which the BE50 does) high output pickups are more about the feel and playability than the actual amount of gain. Sure, it does have more output and will drive your amp harder but like I’ve said, you can get a fairly high gain sound from single coils and filtertrons as well. They actually feel much sharper and cutting than humbuckers because they have a much higher and narrower resonant peak.
Friedmans are not prioritized for metal, it is more of a rock amp based on the Marshall Super Leads. It shaves off a lot of the high end zing the Marshalls have, and has a much more compressed feel making it play like a very polished, idealized Marshall. That is just how the amp is.
Maybe consider the 5150 BUT play on the blue/rhythm crunch channel, I always thought that was close to a modded 800. I haven’t personally played it but the Bogner Snorkeler will probably be in the ballpark.
I know you are not looking for an overdrive, but for kicks try out the Friedman Golden Pearl or the JHS Morning Glory to boost your 800. Turn the gain down to around 6 or 7 on the Marshall where the bright cap is mixed out a bit so the bass comes in just a hair, if you turn it up to ten it will be a bit mushy. Voice toggle UP on the golden pearl, LED clipping, subtle compression and high volume as opposed to the voice DOWN which is a diode clipper that has more compression and less output volume, this sounds good with cleaner amps IMO and can kinda soften the attack of the 800. Interestingly enough Mr. Friedman suggests the diode clipping mode for Marshalls, so its up to you what you like.
These are the most natural overdrives when it comes to pushing Marshalls, its almost as if you modded it with a second channel. Its that good, try it out. If you are still against the idea of having an OD then try out a hotmod which is an additional tube gainstage you can install on most Marshalls. If you need to have the SAT on the BE50 and crank the gain to get the sound you like, that is a lot of gain.. More of the HBE/SLO100 territory level of gain.
-> The BE amps are high gain, but not THAT high gain. It’s more of the cranked plexi type of high gain, and for that it has plenty of gain on tap. You can literally play metal on it with teles and strats.
Try adjusting the height of the pickups to around 2.5mm(4/64”) from the pole pieces to the bottom of the E strings while pressing down the last fret, this is a good starting point for most pups. You can do up as much as 1.5mm for more volume, see if you like your gear this way.
3. Should I just buy new humbuckers first before trying a new amp?
-> No, if your amp has enough gain on tap(which the BE50 does) high output pickups are more about the feel and playability than the actual amount of gain. Sure, it does have more output and will drive your amp harder but like I’ve said, you can get a fairly high gain sound from single coils and filtertrons as well. They actually feel much sharper and cutting than humbuckers because they have a much higher and narrower resonant peak.
Friedmans are not prioritized for metal, it is more of a rock amp based on the Marshall Super Leads. It shaves off a lot of the high end zing the Marshalls have, and has a much more compressed feel making it play like a very polished, idealized Marshall. That is just how the amp is.
Maybe consider the 5150 BUT play on the blue/rhythm crunch channel, I always thought that was close to a modded 800. I haven’t personally played it but the Bogner Snorkeler will probably be in the ballpark.
I know you are not looking for an overdrive, but for kicks try out the Friedman Golden Pearl or the JHS Morning Glory to boost your 800. Turn the gain down to around 6 or 7 on the Marshall where the bright cap is mixed out a bit so the bass comes in just a hair, if you turn it up to ten it will be a bit mushy. Voice toggle UP on the golden pearl, LED clipping, subtle compression and high volume as opposed to the voice DOWN which is a diode clipper that has more compression and less output volume, this sounds good with cleaner amps IMO and can kinda soften the attack of the 800. Interestingly enough Mr. Friedman suggests the diode clipping mode for Marshalls, so its up to you what you like.
These are the most natural overdrives when it comes to pushing Marshalls, its almost as if you modded it with a second channel. Its that good, try it out. If you are still against the idea of having an OD then try out a hotmod which is an additional tube gainstage you can install on most Marshalls. If you need to have the SAT on the BE50 and crank the gain to get the sound you like, that is a lot of gain.. More of the HBE/SLO100 territory level of gain.
G
gritstogroats
Active member
the 1987x plexi with a hot mod and a big boost like king in yellow. i get some aggressive gain and voicing/bite.
Throw that in a jcm 800 forget about it.
otherwise headfirst evil joe. ive had it for a year. i played a splawn in stores used. metro and friedman as well. never owned myself.
evil joe is like a museum of marshall sounds over the years imo. the alta imo does a little deeper dive of the classical sounds while Evil joe can get you in very modern aggressive territory.
Throw that in a jcm 800 forget about it.
otherwise headfirst evil joe. ive had it for a year. i played a splawn in stores used. metro and friedman as well. never owned myself.
evil joe is like a museum of marshall sounds over the years imo. the alta imo does a little deeper dive of the classical sounds while Evil joe can get you in very modern aggressive territory.
mnemonic
Well-known member
The thing about Mesa mark amps is the B/M/T eq is pre-gain so it’s like having a boost pedal built into the amp. This will shape the response and tightness of the amp depending how it’s set. Most other Marshall-style amps have the eq post-gain so if you want to change the tightness you either need a pedal up front or bust out the soldering iron and start changing parts. A lot of the ‘tight amps that don’t need a boost’ also usually don’t have much adjustability in that tightness for some reason.
If you still have the Friedman and are still struggling with it, try an eq pedal in front, pull down the bass sliders and push up mids (maybe pull down treble a bit too). This should get the feel more in-line with what the knob eq on the mark does, without greatly changing the character of the distortion like overdrive pedals can.
If you still have the Friedman and are still struggling with it, try an eq pedal in front, pull down the bass sliders and push up mids (maybe pull down treble a bit too). This should get the feel more in-line with what the knob eq on the mark does, without greatly changing the character of the distortion like overdrive pedals can.
Shask
Well-known member
I tried a DSL100HR last week and I was surprised how much I liked it. It reminded me of a more modern, more saturated 800 sound. I am thinking about picking one up.
Fusionbear
Well-known member
There a lot of great choices.
My top two are:
Splawn Quickrod, Competition, or Streetrod
@FourT6and2 Bay area thrash mod (Langner).
These two give me all the options I need.
The Splawn has the dry, stringy, early EVH type tone. Less forgiving and requires precision.
The Bay area mod gives me juicy, yet tight. But it is a little more forgiving.
My top two are:
Splawn Quickrod, Competition, or Streetrod
@FourT6and2 Bay area thrash mod (Langner).
These two give me all the options I need.
The Splawn has the dry, stringy, early EVH type tone. Less forgiving and requires precision.
The Bay area mod gives me juicy, yet tight. But it is a little more forgiving.
BABMusic
Well-known member
I still have the BE, but it's actually in UPS hands right now on the way to Dave. I'm making sure it's working properly because mine does seem to have a lot less gain than other people's. I've contacted several BE50 owners and so far, most of them think my amp is lacking in gain. Dave also said he thinks it sounded a bit low in gain. Fortunately, shipping was surprisingly cheap by shipping it via my work location.
I'm not really looking for the most heavy metal tone, as I have a Mark IV for those needs if I want it. I recently heard a video by Joe at PassionforTone, and his SS-100 sounded incredible with his guitars. There was tons of gain and saturation even with the knob at 6. These were with Friedman guitars, which use the same Friedman pickups I tried with my own BE50.
I've been considering the Hotmod, as that seems like the best bet that would not alter the amps original tone. I've also discovered that amps that are tight like the BE50, do not sound as good with an overdrive as say, something more muddy. If I put an SD-1 into a Marshall DSL, it will sound glorious because that amp isn't the tightest.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to write that detailed response. This has been a head scratcher for me.
BABMusic
Well-known member
That's interesting because I've always felt like the Mark series do not sound good with overdrives, and I didn't know it was because they were already so tight sounding from the already built in boost.
C
Caca_Spaniel_123
Member
I think you will be happy with your BE50 after it has been serviced as long as you like its inherent voice. It is perfect for what you need. If you feel like it is too polite sounding try the Friedman SS100, JEL50 or the Suhr PT100 as these are a lot closer to their original Marshall counterparts. The JEL50 is a 2204 circuit modified so that the gain does not feel bloated, it even has the big bright cap the OG JMPs had. Not entirely sure whether they are the same value, though. SS and PT100 are voiced very close to a real deal Super Leads which the BE amps are not designed to do.
anomaly
Well-known member
These amps really do have a strong jcm800 vibe. Plus all the mod switches make it very versatile, they are like a bunch of common Marshall mods with the flip of a little switch. I think these amps really benefit from an OD up front though, they need a little tightening.
As far as pickups, a Duncan Distortion or JB seems to push amps perfectly.
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