Gigging Dudes: Tips Moving from Tubes to Helix/Pod Go?

J

Junk Yard Dog

Well-known member
I am finally going to give this some real consideration. I gig quite a bit and lug head, 2x12, pedalboard, 3 guitars, etc. I am liking the idea of taking my rig and having it all be in one place and lose a lot of the weight. Plus, I may be going IEM due to recent tinnitus onset.

I was REALLY impressed with some of the clips and tutorials on the Helix and Pod Go. I don't do a lot of crazy effects or need a huge variety of scenes.

Any tips to be aware of in terms of setting up sounds?

How well do these units clean up with guitar volume, which I do a lot and have a treble bleed?

How well does your created distortion tones translate from your monitors at home to the louder gig volumes through a PA? Any tips there to be aware of?

Just curious.
 
I’ve done the same thing, and it saved a lot of backache from carrying a lot of gear. I’ve done 4cm, thru an frfr, and have since gone to a isp power amp for the amp in the room feel. I’m also big on using the vol to clean it up some and it works pretty good depending on the amount of gain or od’s you have going.
 
I was running 4CM with my AX8 and Splawn amp. I set up direct patches on the AX8 but wasn't ready to make the jump yet. We ended up in a place that was so small, I said fuck it I'm not even carrying my amp in for this shit gig and went direct with the AX8 and it sounded great. I went back and found a good IR and dialed it in with the main PA speakers we use. I've been doing it ever since. We have played some bigger places with house PA and a sound guy, and it sounded fine. Only thing is I miss not hearing my amp so I run an output off my AX8 to a Headrush 108 for my own monitor. Bass player and keyboard player are direct to so theres no volume wars onstage anymore.
 
I gigged for years with a GSP1101 and IEM's. Being able to load in with a single trip was awesome. 4 space rack bag with Juice Goose, GSP1101, Rocktron Rack Interface, Sennheiser wireless and a PedalPower AC.

Did the same a Chris - set up patches at home using headphones then tweaked with the PA.
 
My normal gigging rig is a Bogner XTC and one or two Bog 4x12 cabs with the Helix floor in 4cm for effects only. I just had my first full band rehearsal yesterday using only the Helix into two Headrush FRFR-112s.

I have zero issues lugging heavy gear around so it's not that for me. It's mostly out of sheer COVID boredom that I finally decided to futz with the amp models in the Helix. :)

I get most of my cleans w/ the guitar volume. I found most of the models clean up super close to how the real amp would. The Bright Plexi model for example gets that glassy, stringy tone just like you'd hear EVH in old live clips of his clean playing.

Regarding low vol (home) vs. high volume (gig) translation, presets you create at lower volumes will almost definitely have to be tweaked for gig volumes. They tend to get harsh as the volume goes up. I dialed mine in at home at gig volumes and still had to tweak at band rehearsal. See #3 below...

Whether you'll like it or not will probably depend on a few things:
1) You need a decent monitoring situation whether it's desktop, wedges, IEMs, headphones, etc.
2) IRs might work better for you than the stock L6 cabs. I'm having better luck with some Ownhammer and Michael Britt IRs at the moment, but that's mostly because they kind of "dialed in" already as opposed to messing with the different mics and placements on the stock cabs
3) You'll need to devote the time to dialing in your tones at gig volume. Then you'll have to tweak them again at rehearsal, then probably again at your first show and maybe a few more times after that until you're happy
4) It helps to have a studio engineer mindset when building presets - meaning you might need some eq and compression at the end of your blocks to kind of "master" your final mix/tone to get your presets to sound and feel right - for a gigging band mix, you'll probably need a healthy amount of low and high cutting, which can be done in the cab block, IR, EQ block or a combination

I am supremely picky about my tone and an old-school mindset so take it FWIW. I'm personally not ready to ditch my Bogner rig, but I'm not entirely unhappy with yesterday's rehearsal results either. It's giving me something to do.
 
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Man all I can say is set your gigging patches up WITH the band and at gig volume as best you can. FRFR sucks, and I'd grab something like a Quilter and a regular 212 if you feel the need to have some "air" behind you when playing.

The powerCab 212+ is pretty awesome, but it isn't cheap. Good IR's do help, but I find a 2 cab split (not Dual Cab block) works pretty damn well.

My "at home play" patches usually are tweaked for live use. Some amp models roll back better than others. I tend to keep the Sag control really low or off on most amps.
 
Dudes: this is great info and very helpful. ...I've watched a lot of videos in the last 7 days and I'm pretty confident on how to create patches and tweak, but I wish there was a service where you could sit with someone for like 1-2 hours to get the basics on how and what to tweak on the fly at gigs to optimize the PA and what not. I would pay for this as I am like simple things and am not a huge tweaker.

That's my only pause with going this route my band doesn't bring our own PA to shows, so we're beholden to what's already there, so if I could just learn how to tweak exactly what things in the right ways and on the fly before gig after hearing it through FOH, then I would easily go this direction and leave all my analog stuff at home.
 
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Give the Headrush pedalboard a look if you haven't already. I also tried the Helix a while back and found it too complicated for a simple guy like myself, especially when trying to adjust things on the fly. I moved to the Headrush and never looked back. Much simpler to setup/adjust rigs. Has a big touchscreen and the screen actually looks like a pedalboard. Also, personally I think it sounds better than the Helix, though some will disagree with me.

I have used this setup exclusively for 2-3 years now, direct to the board, with IEMs.
 
Junk Yard Dog said:
Dudes: this is great info and very helpful. ...I've watched a lot of videos in the last 7 days and I'm pretty confident on how to create patches and tweak, but I wish there was a service where you could sit with someone for like 1-2 hours to get the basics on now to teak on the fly at gigs to optimize the PA and what not. I would pay for this as I am like simple things and am not a huge tweaker.

That's my only pause with going this route my band doesn't bring our own PA to shows, so we're beholden to what's already there, so if I could just learn how to tweak exactly what things in the right ways and on the fly before gig after hearing it through FOH, then I would easily go this direction and leave all my analog stuff at home.
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Man, you and me both, as you can probably tell from the novel I posted above. Exactly the same boat. I hate to keep saying it but it really depends on how particular you are. A lot of players can probably slap together a simple preset or two and be off and running gig-wise. That's not me unfortunately and it sounds like it's not you either.

Lots of places to grab preset patches/bundles (free or fairly cheap). ChopTones has some that sound promising. That's the one thing I haven't done yet that I'm thinking of trying.

The one thing I will say about the Helix though is it's stupid easy to tweak once you get the lay of the land, which is a godsend for someone like me.

For easy tweaking though, I agree that the Headrush board might be another good option. I just recently saw a YT vid of Tracii Guns demoing his Headrush live setup and he gets some great sounds out of it!
 
We all run direct into the PA - FOH. I don't need a backline behind me. If you can work without having that behind you, then you will be fine. I run either 1 or 2 Friedman ASC-10 monitors in front of me tilted upwards as my monitors. They are small enough that they don't take up a large amount of space but have the perfect bottom end as needed. Works great, sounds even better and no issues. Sound is nice and balanced out in front and everything can be heard without beaming anyone with a cabinet. I'd like to run in-ears at some point but that is not in our budget at this point yet.

I love using and having an amp when playing live but being older now, I've realized that I don't want to carry a whole heck of a lot anymore as my back is not what it used to be.
 
I started out with a PowerCab+ as my "live" monitoring solution, and didn't bond with it at all after a year of futzing and fighting with it. I ended up grabbing a pair of Headrush FRFR-112 wedges that were night-and-day better for me personally.

My band doesn't do in-ears, so if I ever end up using this rig live, especially in smaller venues, I plan on doing the same as you PBGas. Point the wedges at me. We have a dedicated production company so I'd have the luxury of working with our sound tech on it for at least a little bit. I usually get a great monitor mix of my real mic-ed cab these days because I've had years to dial it in. That "FOH" tone coming back at me from a modeler just has to hit me a certain way tonally, which is the part I'm fighting with atm.
 
Something that really helped me bond with Helix and start dialing in satisfying sounds, was to spend a little money on purchasing presets. There's a handful of companies out there that people like, Choptones, MBritt, etc. It might seem nuts to spend money on presets, but it was a tremendous help for me to look into someone else's methods and incorporate their strategies. I still use one of those purchased presets after tweaking only the gain and presence. It just did what I wanted without needing to change much. For whatever reason, Helix needs a little more TLC to get where I want to be. I can't just load up an IR and amplifier of choice and be satisfied. I can do this with Axe FX, because it seems like this "producers mindset" or false mastering is baked into their models or something. There's a certain unrealistic sheen with Axe FX that Helix doesn't have. You have to do more work with Helix, but I have noticed that some of their models sound spot on to the real amps when I load down my amp and DI into Helix. It's not exact, but their 2204 and Recto are closer to what a raw amp sounds like, which isn't always the most flattering tone until you apply some post-EQ. I only use Helix for recording though, what works in a "studio" mix might be completely different for a stage mix. I always had trouble getting FRFR to sound right when I was doing that with Axe FX. I haven't gave it a fair shot with Helix. I just use real amps on stage.
 
Awesome info, thanks! My next step is to grab some ChopTones presets and see if any of those point me in the right direction. Was also thinking of going the AxeFx/FM-3 route for exactly the reasons you stated, but I'm kind of committed to my Helix for now. Love that thing.

Fortunately for me, this is all just something to do and focus on while I'm not gigging.
 
I don’t have experience with the line 6 stuff but I moved from my tube amps to the Kemper about two years ago and love it. I switched over to iem at the same time. I run a powered one and still run cabs for the air but can easily not use cabs. The consistency is awesome and really helped my playing. I don’t think you will have issues. Good luck
 
Question: So if I go Helix to FOH, and the sound guy has 'regular wedges' pointed at me, will the Helix sound good from those if I use those to hear myself, or do I need a real FRFR? ...I currently do use IEMs and won't be going that route for a bit, so how can I hear myself best: wedge? FRFR from my Helix?
 
Junk Yard Dog said:
Question: So if I go Helix to FOH, and the sound guy has 'regular wedges' pointed at me, will the Helix sound good from those if I use those to hear myself, or do I need a real FRFR? ...I currently do use IEMs and won't be going that route for a bit, so how can I hear myself best: wedge? FRFR from my Helix?
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If the monitors are coming from FOH mix your guitar will sound fine, but if your not loud enough in the monitor mix, your screwed, because you have no amp behind you. With a traditional amp if you cant hear yourself in the monitors, you can move closer to your amp,turn it up or whatever. I like to hear my guitar separate from the monitor mix so I use a small FRFR monitor (Headrush) Straight off my AX8 so if I need it I can turn it up. I also have used a guitar cab with a small power amp like a Seymour Duncan Powerstage or a EHX Magnum 44, but thats just more stuff to carry and am pretty happy with the Headrush.
 
Chris6870 said:
If the monitors are coming from FOH mix your guitar will sound fine, but if your not loud enough in the monitor mix, your screwed, because you have no amp behind you. With a traditional amp if you cant hear yourself in the monitors, you can move closer to your amp,turn it up or whatever. I like to hear my guitar separate from the monitor mix so I use a small FRFR monitor (Headrush) Straight off my AX8 so if I need it I can turn it up. I also have used a guitar cab with a small power amp like a Seymour Duncan Powerstage or a EHX Magnum 44, but thats just more stuff to carry and am pretty happy with the Headrush.
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Thanks, @Chris6870 . Yeah, the idea for me is to still get some 'feel' on stage with some sound without using IRs and custom earplugs to protect my hearing (tinnitus now), and get everything with one trip from the car, ha!

My buddy and I are researching the Helix pretty heavily at this point, so I'll start doing the same for a good FRFR options. I do hear good things about the Headrush FRFRs.
 
The biggest problem with FRFR is that you have to invest in profiles and IRs which should end up costing you a good fraction of what you paid for the hardware. Basically, time is not on your side but when you have established a collection and can EQ properly then all you need is a good power stage and you will compete with everyone in your band, no problem. There are plenty of power stage options to select from. You will also need a good monitor like a Friedman cab or Mission or even a lower-end Headrush. You can easily compete with valve cabs with power stages because the valve stuff is usually limited by up to 120W whereas some FRFRs and monitors can go into the thousands just like at a gig. Even though Wattage is not really a measure of volume, I think you get the point that power stages are where it is at.
 
Ive been using an Atomic Amplifire and a small, powered FRFR speaker for smaller stages. It’s amazing. Sounds and feels closer to a real amp than the other stuff I’ve tried. I carry my entire rig and two guitars into a gig in one trip.
 
Junk Yard Dog said:
Dudes: this is great info and very helpful. ...I've watched a lot of videos in the last 7 days and I'm pretty confident on how to create patches and tweak, but I wish there was a service where you could sit with someone for like 1-2 hours to get the basics on how and what to tweak on the fly at gigs to optimize the PA and what not. I would pay for this as I am like simple things and am not a huge tweaker.

That's my only pause with going this route my band doesn't bring our own PA to shows, so we're beholden to what's already there, so if I could just learn how to tweak exactly what things in the right ways and on the fly before gig after hearing it through FOH, then I would easily go this direction and leave all my analog stuff at home.
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