Marshall Super Lead with Mods - Too Bright

[SpiderWars]

The thing with reducing the bright cap is that highest highs, the most ear piercing frequencies, are still there. But now you've reduced those juicy upper mids.

But its really hard to say with this amp because we don't really know 'where' the two Volumes are in the circuit. Generally speaking, if you keep two gain controls when cascading a Marshall then a bright cap on the first volume in circuit will affect the character/voice of the tone more than it would on the second volume in circuit. A bright cap on the second volume in circuit will tend to make the whole thing brighter (moreso than it would on first volume in circuit).

When I say first or second volume "in circuit" I mean schematically...not necessarily what is physically in the amp. Sometimes the internal jumpering renders the first volume and second volume reversed in the actual amp.

Hope that made sense, I may have had an adult beverage or two by now.

 

[TheRealDonnie]

He's under the influence and guitar amplifiers have lethal voltages under the hood.

 

[glpg80]

Try using a coiled cable over 30 feet direct to amp with no buffer. That will tame the high-end somewhat as is why many hard rock Marshall users played with coiled cable. There is a degradation of the high end.

This is also why coiled cables or long cables aren't very good with country, blues and rockabilly because they can damped the high end. You need a buffer in front like Wah if you use long cables. It explains why Boss Pedal tuners are buffered.

The degradation is measurable. Longer the cable the less high end you get.

So if it’s really bright, you just keep chaining retro coil cables together? Man that book is liquid gold. Imagine 600ft of cable at a gig.

If only there was something you could do inside the amplifier. A component of some type. Placed in some location.

 

[dstroud]

This putting a mv on a nmv is sinful buy a 2203 or 4

totally agree, I have a couple 2204 style amps as well

 

[panhead]

Play loud as fuck for 35 years,youll have no more high end . I dont

 

[Racerxrated]

regarding the ppimv, I’ve had 2 different ones on my 1987 clone and I felt both really took away the warmth of the amp, made it really scooped sounding. I had much better luck with an attenuator.

Any MV mod on these NMVs neuters the amp IMO. I tried changing the LEMCO 5K bright cap; lifting the leg etc.....also neuters the amp. I'd go with reversing the mods, grab some pedals and an attenuator. My 72 is able to be darkened somewhat; but being a Marshall has some limitations in how dark you can actually make it.

 

[Greazygeo]

Coil cords do roll off high end. Some amps back in the day they would coil signal wires to affect the tone. Can’t remember if it was early Boogies or something else.

Before wireless units were affordable, other guitarist made a 50’ guitar cord. Even with his emgs there was hardly any treble left at the amp. It was horrible.

100pf bright cap takes care of it...have it on all my old plexis. That 5k cap is death unless you can stand the amp on 8 or above.

 

[TheRealDonnie]

Play loud as fuck for 35 years, you'll have no more high end.

It's a really cheap mod too.

 

[TheRealDonnie]

Any MV mod on these NMVs neuters the amp IMO.

I would have thought that one of the gourmet clone builders would have figured this out by now.
Guys like Suhr and Bray are wizards.

What is it about a plexi circuit that it seems no-one has been able to do it?

 

[braintheory]

So if it’s really bright, you just keep chaining retro coil cables together? Man that book is liquid gold. Imagine 600ft of cable at a gig.

If only there was something you could do inside the amplifier. A component of some type. Placed in some location.

You gotta write you’re own 300 page fiction novel for $60 on Amazon to have valid credentials to argue with him

I think you’re also forgetting a few zeros when you said 600ft cable to do the trick

 

[braintheory]

Any MV mod on these NMVs neuters the amp IMO. I tried changing the LEMCO 5K bright cap; lifting the leg etc.....also neuters the amp. I'd go with reversing the mods, grab some pedals and an attenuator. My 72 is able to be darkened somewhat; but being a Marshall has some limitations in how dark you can actually make it.

My ‘67 and other I’ve tried from ‘67 or earlier seem to be almost the opposite. They are dark (still cutting and very present though) and warm. Not the tightest or most aggressive amps, but beautiful tone and ballsy. My ‘67 kinda always has this Clapton or Hendrix-y kinda sound when overdriven no matter what I do with boosts (even double boosts), speakers, pickups, etc. I gotta figure out where the cut off year was for when Marshall’s got more toothy/aggressive and get one of those added to my arsenal later. The ‘67 doesn’t really imo do the kerrang or toothy thing. Seems like maybe it’s what Friedman could’ve been inspired by in his amps

It can I guess technically pull off harder stuff, but always has to me that Clapton/Hendrix-y vibe there. Just part of its inherent tone it seems, which is terrific, but just probably not ideal for what most guys on here would be looking for

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Try using a coiled cable over 30 feet direct to amp with no buffer. That will tame the high-end somewhat as is why many hard rock Marshall users played with coiled cable. There is a degradation of the high end.

This is also why coiled cables or long cables aren't very good with country, blues and rockabilly because they can damped the high end. You need a buffer in front like Wah if you use long cables. It explains why Boss Pedal tuners are buffered.

The degradation is measurable. Longer the cable the less high end you get.

In my experience, it’s the ultimate recipe for absolute horrible tone, but I can see why your sidekick would agree with you.

Btw,
Odd to see the ‘two’ connect here on the other side,
You’re so polite ‘here’.
- Merry Christmas …

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

You gotta write you’re own 300 page fiction novel for $60 on Amazon to have valid credentials to argue with him

I think you’re also forgetting a few zeros when you said 600ft cable to do the trick

Unbelievable…

 

[Greazygeo]

My ‘67 and other I’ve tried from ‘67 or earlier seem to be almost the opposite. They are dark (still cutting and very present though) and warm. Not the tightest or most aggressive amps, but beautiful tone and ballsy. My ‘67 kinda always has this Clapton or Hendrix-y kinda sound when overdriven no matter what I do with boosts (even double boosts), speakers, pickups, etc. I gotta figure out where the cut off year was for when Marshall’s got more toothy/aggressive and get one of those added to my arsenal later. The ‘67 doesn’t really imo do the kerrang or toothy thing. Seems like maybe it’s what Friedman could’ve been inspired by in his amps

It can I guess technically pull off harder stuff, but always has to me that Clapton/Hendrix-y vibe there. Just part of its inherent tone it seems, which is terrific, but just probably not ideal for what most guys on here would be looking for

Look at the value of the bright cap…100 pf. There are other changes too, I change all mine to 100pf.

 

[braintheory]

Look at the value of the bright cap…100 pf. There are other changes too, I change all mine to 100pf.

I can ask my tech about that, I’m not a tech savvy guy at all, but it seems all the ‘67 or earlier Marshall’s I’ve tried so far sound like mine or at least in the same ballpark in being darker. It sounds great and not necessarily looking to change it, it’s one of my best amps, but more thought I may as well find a later Marshall to give me that brighter, more aggressive sound. My ‘67 I’d describe more as being rich, warm, pretty, very pleasant, but still lotta balls and cut and has certainly those distinctive Marshall mids

 

[ZEN Amps]

I would have thought that one of the gourmet clone builders would have figured this out by now.
Guys like Suhr and Bray are wizards.

What is it about a plexi circuit that it seems no-one has been able to do it?

It can be done, but it sucks. The sound of a cranked plexi is the sound of the phase inverter and power tubes being hit relatively hard. A master volume of any type restricts the input level to the power section, and there goes half the recipe.

Attenuators are your best friend for a NMV amp, not sticking in a MV, or power scaling, or more gain stages to mimic a pushed power section.

 

[TheToneDig]

I don't recommend snipping anything until you've tried what Hendrix and dozens of others did to tame the high end. It's easy. Coiled cables.

Also look into what Satana does in his rig rundown.

Same thing.

Took me years to figure out that that is what is going on. You can see that some people haven't even caught on to this here despite having a history of snipping things.

Once you start snipping it is a bit hard to accept that this was the solution all along. However at least you learn stuff about your amp. It's just moded and no longer the same. No high end. There goes all your pinch harmonics.

 

[TheToneDig]

You gotta write you’re own 300 page fiction novel for $60 on Amazon to have valid credentials to argue with him

I think you’re also forgetting a few zeros when you said 600ft cable to do the trick

That's misinformation. Spend $10 on a Kindle, read it instead instead of believing people who can't even quote from it and never have because they've never read it.

If the chap with the brightness problem had done that he would have come across the section on coiled cables reducing the high end. Out of the thousands of things he could have learned and rejected them all even if you wanted you would still have this solution which cost $20. So that's $10 plus the $20 = $30 to solve that problem and no snipping.

That was just one piece of advice out of thousands remember.

It's such a pity that some members here just refuse to read it and prefer to comment on it for a whole several months unfortunately spreading misinformation about it, when the information that's in it confers benefits such as massive cost savings if you don't know everything.

If you know everything then obviously the book isn't for you. However at least quote from it if you have a problem with it.

Do us all a favor. If you've been complaining about this book and have never read it and if the longer coiled cable method tames the high end for some people who learn about this today, then maybe revise what your preconceived notions are and chance reading a $10 Kindle book and maybe just maybe learning something worth that $10.

The book was compiled over years of keeping tips and notes like this for people with questions like this. Obviously given that nobody was mentioning coiled cables up until this point it seems that it has its place in introducing concepts, many of them historical and well used, to people who are not so familiar with them.

If you got a problem with it quote it. And by the way the whole reason it reached the size of volume it did was because I corrected it based on new information coming forward for years before releasing it. It's modern.

 

[TheToneDig]

Also I think some of you never read the following link, which you should.

https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/thre...droom-recording-mentions-these-forums.230676/
And by the way coiled cables and snipping are not mutually exclusive either. The advantage to the longer cable method is you just go back to using a shorter cable if you want the high end. You don't have to go near the circuitry. Just put up with a 30-ft coil cable or use a longer straight one like Santana.

 

[Jack Luminous]

LOL