Some food for thoughts on dialing in your amps...

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Nigel said:
Learning the circuit is what got me where I want to be.

It’s a technical subject, and mastering it via building an objective frame of reference is key.
Click to expand...

This is where I'm at right now. Dialing it in by ear is one thing but understanding the circuit brings it to another level.

A general expectation is putting a knob in the middle of the sweep range (noon) is flat and you boost or cut from there. Depending on the circuit that's not always the case. Flat can be everything dimed and you're using subtractive EQ or vice-versa 0 is flat and you're boosting everything or anything in between. Then take into account which frequencies are being affected and by how much, if turning the bass affects the mids and highs, etc. etc. Even simple tone stack circuits can be fairly complex in how they work and understanding it gives you that frame of reference that's usually missing.

This concept started to click with me when I was wanting to get the most out of my amps and trying to figure out which frequencies were affected when I turned the knobs. That led me to learning about circuit designs which is now helping me dial in the tone better and easier.

It's hard enough for a lot of people to get dialing it in with your ears and incorporating circuit design is beyond that. Then what can you expect when you read the manual and get stupid shit like... Bass: crank this knob to bring the thunder. WTF am I supposed to do with that?
 
I once had a talented but arrogant guitarist tell me it was "smart" to dime all the tone controls on a JCM800 (or any Marshall) because "you don't lose anything that way". True, if only in the sense that such a passive EQ circuit is only capable of attenuation but the thing you'll lose first with both high treble and presence settings is your hearing.
 
A corollary to this is when you dial in the perfect at home tone, load up to go to rehearsal, plug in with the band and it's no longer great. When it comes to amp settings, people seem to understand that volume matters when playing with others but ignore how much more important EQ suddenly is.
 
Zado said:
True, but depends on your setup and what the other guitarists (if any) are doing imho. With some amps (and cabs ofc) cranking mids can cause a lot of muddiness.
On a side note, most players tend to defeat Bass knob not to interfere with bass players (and get subdued), but with Marshalls it only thins your sound, and you won't hear youself just as good.
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It's not about cranking anything. I'm talking about turning up the midrange 1 or 2 digits. Very minor adjustments in a live settings. Should be way past the point of general mix long before this.
If you turn up the entire amp with the master it usually throws off the entire mix in the middle of a performance.
 
Back in the day... before the internet, there was a lot less complaining of amps not cutting thru because of settings. Nowadays guys go on forums and look for settings, or watch a video about how they are supposed to dial in their amps. I cant even begin to go into the million different variables about why settings work for one amp and sound like ass with the same amp at my house.

The Boogie manuals have sample settings which is a good starting point, but you are EXPECTED to tweak to taste... Its kind of common sense but I get trying to cop a certain tone that you hear someone with the same amp you own sounds great and yours doesnt, but Come on !! LOL
 
I'm guilty of starting at 12". Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I tend to find an amps natural voice by exploring the full sweep backing off when it starts to introduce imbalance starting with Bass>Mid>Treble and on to other parameters usually circling back to Mid at the end. That's at home by myself, in a mix the rules can change.
 
GearGasms said:
A corollary to this is when you dial in the perfect at home tone, load up to go to rehearsal, plug in with the band and it's no longer great. When it comes to amp settings, people seem to understand that volume matters when playing with others but ignore how much more important EQ suddenly is.
Click to expand...
Hahaha you mean like the mega massive low end guys dial up on 100 / 50 watt amp "ABC" rendering anything lower power useless (according to them), yet as soon as its in a band mix it becomes completely useless? To be fair though many of those same people will never take them out of the house and / or know any better so I guess its all relative.
 
phil b said:
Back in the day... before the internet, there was a lot less complaining of amps not cutting thru because of settings. Nowadays guys go on forums and look for settings, or watch a video about how they are supposed to dial in their amps. I cant even begin to go into the million different variables about why settings work for one amp and sound like ass with the same amp at my house.

The Boogie manuals have sample settings which is a good starting point, but you are EXPECTED to tweak to taste... Its kind of common sense but I get trying to cop a certain tone that you hear someone with the same amp you own sounds great and yours doesnt, but Come on !! LOL
Click to expand...
You got it !!! I'm old and am listening to all this stupid shit about understanding the amp circuits and all this crap . I'm not sure if 75% of the people on this forum would understand what old rockers went through with 6 knob amps , no effects loop and a few pedals to get great tone . It's amazing to me with forums and youtube and swiss army knife amps how most people sound like shit.

Musicians should be required to own and master a 6 knob JCM 800 before you can move to the next level !!!

Think about it !!!!!!
 
I just want to add something to this whole toneshaping topic: the eq pedal! Not pleased with the response or overall EQ curve of your amp? A good eq pedal can help to really transform the sound of your amp:



Everyone is always like, "put an EQ in the loop and it completely changes the amp". But how do you use it? Which frequencies do you change etc?
 
MadAsAHatter said:
This is where I'm at right now. Dialing it in by ear is one thing but understanding the circuit brings it to another level.

A general expectation is putting a knob in the middle of the sweep range (noon) is flat and you boost or cut from there. Depending on the circuit that's not always the case. Flat can be everything dimed and you're using subtractive EQ or vice-versa 0 is flat and you're boosting everything or anything in between. Then take into account which frequencies are being affected and by how much, if turning the bass affects the mids and highs, etc. etc. Even simple tone stack circuits can be fairly complex in how they work and understanding it gives you that frame of reference that's usually missing.

This concept started to click with me when I was wanting to get the most out of my amps and trying to figure out which frequencies were affected when I turned the knobs. That led me to learning about circuit designs which is now helping me dial in the tone better and easier.

It's hard enough for a lot of people to get dialing it in with your ears and incorporating circuit design is beyond that. Then what can you expect when you read the manual and get stupid shit like... Bass: crank this knob to bring the thunder. WTF am I supposed to do with that?
Click to expand...
Flat on a Fender TMB is T5, B5, M10. Add Ed's 25K to 50K mid pot mod, and suddenly, it's flat with all controls at noon. Very confusing unless you understand how the circuit works. Now when I dime it, it's a slight smile, like Ed's, and what did he do? Put an EQ pedal on it boosting the mids which makes it more flat. There's also something to be said about not wanting to listen to the pots, i.e. cranking them to get them as much out of the circuit as you can.

I prefer this, as does Bob Gjika, which is why his $5K 10n amp has only volume and tone.
 
Over the past few years I've been dialing in EQ on the other end of the spectrum - starting dimed and working my way back until my ears like what I hear. Unless its an active EQ - like a Peavey XXX or something similar, I like dialing in Marshall type amps this way rather than starting at noon or zero. Finding I'm running Mids and Treble a lot higher than I used to.

But as others have said, we get in this routine of dialing with our eyes and not our ears - starting dimed is a good way to break that habit (for me at least)
 
BTW - the closing your eyes thing really just means to let your mind go and forget about past preconceived notions. Because even with your eyes closed your hands can feel the whole sweep of the pot.

So really it is a combination of what:

1. The builder originally had in mind
2. The circuit design itself will do
3. The tone stack is actually doing
4. The user manual recommends
5. The historical record
6. The Internet/forums
7. The eyes of the user
8. The ears of the user
 
IMO, most amps seem pretty straight forward, and easy enough to dial in a good tone if you can afford the volume. Certain builders though, just seem to have an odd way of approaching the tone stack. The old Mesa for sure, struggled with those for a while before I understood the EQ. Bogner gave me some grief, especially the twinjet, but once you find those sweet spots... Everyone hated Krank too, but those things had a narrow range on the EQ, combined with sweep, where they could sound pretty wicked.
 
Don't forget...

311splawndude said:
BTW - the closing your eyes thing really just means to let your mind go and forget about past preconceived notions. Because even with your eyes closed your hands can feel the whole sweep of the pot.

So really it is a combination of what:

1. The builder originally had in mind
2. The circuit design itself will do
3. The tone stack is actually doing
4. The user manual recommends
5. The historical record
6. The Internet/forums
7. The eyes of the user
8. The ears of the user
Click to expand...

Don't forget about...

09. The Cabinet
10. The number, size and type of speaker
11. The type guitar being played
12. The pickups being used, both type and position
13. The microphone if recording
14. The gauge of strings
15. The style of music being played
16. The technique of the user
17. The pedals, if any being used
18. The list goes on....

So much goes into the final sound and each piece affects it and to varying degrees. Use whatever method that helps you best achieve your desired tone, but 311splawndude nailed it.... open your mind & don't let preconceived notions limit you from trying another approach.

Or as a great master once said "No, no different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned."
 
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