Year Long Kemper/Tube Amp "Blind Test"?

ghosty999

Well-known member
So every Tube Amp you saw on screen wasn't being played. It was all being done through a Kemper.

Proves how much we listen with our eyes. But also proves how Youtubers don't mind lying to their viewers haha. That is if it's even possible to hear the nuances through compressed youtube audio.

I'd really be interested to put 20 amps and modellers in a room valued from 100$ - 6000$ then do a blind test and get people to choose their favorite based on sound only. The choice would then be purely based on sound. It might piss off a few tone chasers though if they end up choosing a Boss Katana...

 
I don’t really get people thinking some compresssed YouTube audio proves anything regarding tube amp vs modeler. I can record a clip using my old pod and eq match it to a nice mic’d tube amp and get it to sound good recorded. Play through it live though and it’s a totally different feel.

Maybe some people have whatever the feel equivalent of a tin-ear is, and actually don’t notice any feel differences between amps?
 
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Only way to truly compare a modeler to a tube amp is in person, in the room. Recorded tones mean absolutely nothing...I say this because like previously mentioned, these days you can record almost ANYTHING and make it sound good to great.
Try the modeler through an FRFR speaker, then through a SS amp/cab and then a tube power amp/cab.
Only then you will be able to make a fair comparison Imo.
 
I'd really be interested to put 20 amps and modellers in a room valued from 100$ - 6000$ then do a blind test and get people to choose their favorite based on sound only.

Only way to truly compare a modeler to a tube amp is in person, in the room. Recorded tones mean absolutely nothing...I say this because like previously mentioned, these days you can record almost ANYTHING and make it sound good to great.
Try the modeler through an FRFR speaker, then through a SS amp/cab and then a tube power amp/cab.
Only then you will be able to make a fair comparison Imo.

Agreed 100%, we've done just this in great detail with many of our guitar playing buddies.

To describe the entire process of these blind tests would require an essay, but unsurprisingly near everyone walked away saying the tube amp experience was still superior. I say experience, as recorded tone only tells part of the story - feel, interaction and many other factors are just as valid.

Even for recording though we still get consistently better tones using a tube amp, even via a load box and IR's. It took us many years to come around to the IR thing, but after making our own it's now a handy solution with very little compromise compared to a mic'd cab. Certainly solves the 'record quietly at 3am' dilemma that digital had a monopoly on.

The fact that a YT guy used a Kemper and people didn't notice proves nothing, to me at least. Like everything in life, you have to experience things for yourself and draw your own conclusions. From countless hours using both tube and digital gear over more decades than I care to admit, it's still tubes for the win. Digital easily wins the convenience award, but I can't think of anything more un-rock n' roll than that.
 
Yup, this proves absolutely nothing because it only gives a piece of the story. Compressed youtube video is nothing compared to hearing in person. I don't think many people will dispute that modelers can sound pretty good. Though that says nothing to the feel and experience which is where more people say modelers fall short.
 
Only way to truly compare a modeler to a tube amp is in person, in the room. Recorded tones mean absolutely nothing...I say this because like previously mentioned, these days you can record almost ANYTHING and make it sound good to great.
Try the modeler through an FRFR speaker, then through a SS amp/cab and then a tube power amp/cab.
Only then you will be able to make a fair comparison Imo.
So, you're saying that the only way to compare them is to add as many variables as possible? This is why scientific illiteracy is such a problem. Do I really need to explain to a member of a gear forum how different speakers sound different? I mean, if we were to compare a stock Peavey 5150 to a choke modded 5150 to hear what the choke mod really does to the amp, it wouldn't make any sense to use different guitars, pickups, effects, cables, cabs and speakers in different rooms for either example. Of course they would sound different! Running the same guitar through the same cables and the same cab in the same room and the same listening environment, and only switching one variable is how you do a scientific test. That's how I know what the choke mod does.

The Kemper reproduces the sound of a captured guitar rig. Comparing a captured guitar rig to a raw rig adds a variable (even more when you reproduce the capture) in the microphone. If you don't eliminate those variables, you aren't doing a scientific test. You're just using bad science to justify your bias (and I agree with you! I prefer tube amps myself).

If you really want to test your theory, run your guitar through your mic'ed rig on stage, and split it to a Kemper at the same time. Then, walk up to your wedge and see if you can tell the difference when the FOH engineer switches between the two in your wedge. Hell, jump off stage and head out front and tell me you can feel a difference through the FOH PA at concert volume going between your live rig and the captured profile. Do some real science and eliminate variables to get a real result, and let me know your conclusion. Hell, throw some ear buds in and have the Engineer switches the two in your IEMs. Those would be scientific tests in a live environment.
I agree with you, in that amplifiers do a better job of amplifying sound. After all, it is a fucking AMPLIFIER. The feel we love is the sheer volume of a full stack on 5 rattling our balls no matter what pants we wear. That is the dynamic that we interact with when we sustain notes and feedback while playing. Sometimes, it is impractical or unnecessary to be that loud, like for recording, silent stage, or making a YouTube video. In some of those scenarios, the Kemper wins. Sorry. This is just more proof of that. I don't really care if you like Josh's tone, or what you think of YouTube's sound quality, but the fact that none of his subscribers noticed does kinda prove a point. I welcome all of you to use some science and disprove it.
I don’t really get people thinking some compresssed YouTube audio proves anything regarding tube amp vs modeler. I can record a clip using my old pod and eq match it to a nice mic’d tube amp and get it to sound good recorded. Play through it live though and it’s a totally different feel.

Maybe some people have whatever the feel equivalent of a tin-ear is, and actually don’t notice any feel differences between amps?
Especially you. Let's hear the science. Post some clips to prove you can "eq match" a Pod to sound like a tube amp. I want to hear the clips.
 
So, you're saying that the only way to compare them is to add as many variables as possible? This is why scientific illiteracy is such a problem. Do I really need to explain to a member of a gear forum how different speakers sound different? I mean, if we were to compare a stock Peavey 5150 to a choke modded 5150 to hear what the choke mod really does to the amp, it wouldn't make any sense to use different guitars, pickups, effects, cables, cabs and speakers in different rooms for either example. Of course they would sound different! Running the same guitar through the same cables and the same cab in the same room and the same listening environment, and only switching one variable is how you do a scientific test. That's how I know what the choke mod does.

The Kemper reproduces the sound of a captured guitar rig. Comparing a captured guitar rig to a raw rig adds a variable (even more when you reproduce the capture) in the microphone. If you don't eliminate those variables, you aren't doing a scientific test. You're just using bad science to justify your bias (and I agree with you! I prefer tube amps myself).

If you really want to test your theory, run your guitar through your mic'ed rig on stage, and split it to a Kemper at the same time. Then, walk up to your wedge and see if you can tell the difference when the FOH engineer switches between the two in your wedge. Hell, jump off stage and head out front and tell me you can feel a difference through the FOH PA at concert volume going between your live rig and the captured profile. Do some real science and eliminate variables to get a real result, and let me know your conclusion. Hell, throw some ear buds in and have the Engineer switches the two in your IEMs. Those would be scientific tests in a live environment.
I agree with you, in that amplifiers do a better job of amplifying sound. After all, it is a fucking AMPLIFIER. The feel we love is the sheer volume of a full stack on 5 rattling our balls no matter what pants we wear. That is the dynamic that we interact with when we sustain notes and feedback while playing. Sometimes, it is impractical or unnecessary to be that loud, like for recording, silent stage, or making a YouTube video. In some of those scenarios, the Kemper wins. Sorry. This is just more proof of that. I don't really care if you like Josh's tone, or what you think of YouTube's sound quality, but the fact that none of his subscribers noticed does kinda prove a point. I welcome all of you to use some science and disprove it.

Especially you. Let's hear the science. Post some clips to prove you can "eq match" a Pod to sound like a tube amp. I want to hear the clips.
Ok, forget the 'variables' I mentioned. Play the Kemper through the same cab that one would use for their favorite tube amp. The powered Kemper is what I mean. Play the tube amp through the same cab.
Then, in the room, how does it sound/feel? If it's close enough, great. If not, then move on from it.
Since I simplified it for you, does this make sense?
 
Kemper is just a tool, no more, no less. It fills a very specific niche in the arsenal. Live in a situation where I can have an amp and choose between the Kemper and an amp, i'm choosing the amp. The feel isn't even close. In a gig where we're using IEM's, i'm probably playing my Kemper. Recording at home? Not even a question, Kemper all day, just for the variety of tones I can get and the versatility and ease of getting a good tone. At home jams and practice (when volume isn't an issue)? Amps. Feel in the room, again.

Getting butt-hurt about it and polarizing yourself to one side or the other is short-sighted in my opinion. And for the record, feel free to point out all the records made with kempers or Axe FX that you figured out by ear. Clearly none of JHS's tone snobs could....

His tone does kinda blow tho lol.
 
You guys really bought this hook line and sinker.

This is just content for his YouTube channel. Nothing more.

Carry on.
 
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