New amp/modeling/profiling rig!

P

PSGuitar

Active member
Hey guys!

Sorry to post another amp thread.
I learn so much from my friends on rig talk that I wanted to at least drop this and get some feedback.

I'll be looking to get a new amp or modeling unit to add to my collection this spring. Current amps are 20th Anniversary Bogner Shiva, modified Mesa Dual Rec and PRS Archon 100.

I've been craving a good high gain, yet versatile EL34 head but I also like 6L6 tubes. I think it's more about the preamp anyway, but I do find a magic at times with EL34s or 6CA7s which I have in my Archon. I don't notice a huge difference when using 6L6 tubes in this head. Minor at best. Love this amp for clean and high gain but not for crunch or rock.

I mostly use my Shiva for my band and love it.

Been looking at some Diesels, KSR, Suhr PT-100, EVH Stealth, Bogner XTC or Helios Eclipse, Revv Generator 120 and also Kemper or Fractal Audio.

I have friends with the Revv Generator and swear by it for everything. I do love tube amps and I can't remember if this amp takes any tubes.

I am a huge Bogner fan but also have never owned a Marshall so that's been on my mind.

Then you have the whole Kemper and Fractal Audio thing. It's tempting to go that route and run one of the floor units with a tube power amp. My Bogner Shiva has a power amp input.

Thanks in advance for any input!
I appreciate it guys.
 
Borrow a Kemper or AXEFX and try it for a week.
Then you will have a good idea if the digital stuff is cool for you.
Send it back and buy a Diezel.
Or the EVH Stealth.
Or the KSR.
Don't double up on the Bogner unless it's you main bitch. I went through a bunch of models from a lot of brands and settled on my fave from each one. Once you start doing that,you're fucked. You wind up with your fave from each brand and you can't let any of them go.
But seriously, you might like the Kemper or AXEFX. Lots of great tones available in those things. I've heard great stuff on this forum.
And it might stop your amp gas for a while.
 
Great point on the Kemper and Fractal. I tried them briefly but I will see if I can find where to borrow. Otherwise, I could get one at a good price and then flip it if need be.
I really like that Revv as well. It's a beast.
Thanks for the tip on the multiple models from the same company. I love Bogner amps though and a Helios or XTC would be different enough from my Shiva.
I used to have a few EL34 amps back in the day that I miss. Also a good 6L6 head, but it's been years. I just recall really enjoying the feel. My Shiva now is running KT88s.
 
If You like 'feel' of the Bogner amps, there is no modeller/profiler to get You there.
In case of Kemper, You get one generic amp fell response and different sound textures. Nothing close to Blue XTC channel or Helios drive channel. If You take it like workhorse, they are close enough but if playing guitar is Your passion, there is nothing they can offer instead of good old tube amp :)
 
bubucci said:
If You like 'feel' of the Bogner amps, there is no modeller/profiler to get You there.
In case of Kemper, You get one generic amp fell response and different sound textures. Nothing close to Blue XTC channel or Helios drive channel. If You take it like workhorse, they are close enough but if playing guitar is Your passion, there is nothing they can offer instead of good old tube amp :)
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Thanks!
Have you played a Fractal Audio as well?
 
I own and love my 101B,
I own and love my Axe-FXIII...
Will I part with either? Not likely (says me)! :p :ROFLMAO:

Seriously....between just those two tools I feel like there's practically no tone I can't cover, and not just "in the neighborhood" or close enough, but a great tone, especially if we're talking about end result "tracked/recorded" tones.
 
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Axefx through a tube power amp and a guitar cab is very much like a real amp. Im blown away by my FM3 through a KSR compact power amp. Its not really a compromise. I have a bunch of real amps also.
 
Crunchity said:
I own and love my 101B,
I own and love my Axe-FXIII...
Will I part with either? Not likely (says me)! :p :ROFLMAO:

Seriously....between just those two tools I feel like there's practically no tone I can't cover, and not just "in the neighborhood" or close enough, but a great tone, especially if we're talking about end result "tracked/recorded" tones.
Click to expand...
I don't record and for live we don't run amps thru the PA. My guitars tones are all about in the room tone and feel. Live, we use the cabs on stage to fill the room.
 
the4thlast1 said:
Axefx through a tube power amp and a guitar cab is very much like a real amp. Im blown away by my FM3 through a KSR compact power amp. Its not really a compromise. I have a bunch of real amps also.
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And the FM3 is fairly inexpensive, so I've been tempted to get one. Again, I don't record. This is live band use only.

I've read that the FM3 has less power than the FM9 and AX-FXIII, but I don't use complicated configurations or effects. My only concern is the amp tone and feel and I believe it's the same across all of the Fractal Audio units.

Been contemplating a Kemper or Fractal Audio unit through my Bogner power amp and Bogner cab.
 
bubucci said:
If You like 'feel' of the Bogner amps, there is no modeller/profiler to get You there.
In case of Kemper, You get one generic amp fell response and different sound textures. Nothing close to Blue XTC channel or Helios drive channel. If You take it like workhorse, they are close enough but if playing guitar is Your passion, there is nothing they can offer instead of good old tube amp :)
Click to expand...
I disagree.
I did play a Kemper briefly at a friend's studio and each amp profile I played, felt very different. I didn't feel anything homogenous or generic about it.
Through a tube power amp with a band, close my eyes, and I felt like I was playing thru each actual amp from Fender to Mesa to Diezel to Marshall to Bogner.
Maybe not exact but I never felt the Kemper Stage only had one basic feel at all. In fact most amp models had a very tube like softer, rubbery feel which is what I look for in the amps I prefer.
 
PSGuitar said:
And the FM3 is fairly inexpensive, so I've been tempted to get one. Again, I don't record. This is live band use only.

I've read that the FM3 has less power than the FM9 and AX-FXIII, but I don't use complicated configurations or effects. My only concern is the amp tone and feel and I believe it's the same across all of the Fractal Audio units.

Been contemplating a Kemper or Fractal Audio unit through my Bogner power amp and Bogner cab.
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I play live in a metal band. I had been using tube heads for years. I brought out lots of different heads over the years. I tried a powered Kemper once bud the solid state poweramp wasn’t great. The setup I have now with Fm3 and KSR PA50 is awesome . It does sound like a real amp . It’s only the preamp that’s digital and I think the Axefx can be extremely convincing.
 
Out of all of the amps you’re looking for I can’t say enough about a mid to late 90’s XTC. Mine isn’t going anywhere - the blue channel boosted is one of the best sounds I’ve got. The cleans are the cleanest I’ve got too - it’s based on the fender deluxe.

After that I recommend the evh el34 stealth but only if you’re a 5150 fan.
 
I know virtually nothing about this stuff so I need to ask what type of money is somebody needing to spend to get everything that is necessary and I mean not just the Fractal unit or Kemper but everything else like monitors, power amp etc...
 
ccn said:
I know virtually nothing about this stuff so I need to ask what type of money is somebody needing to spend to get everything that is necessary and I mean not just the Fractal unit or Kemper but everything else like monitors, power amp etc...
Click to expand...

For digital modelers, it depends on what you want. I run my digital modelers into power PA speakers; you can use monitors, guitar power amp and cabs (turn off the power amp and cabs in your modeler), headphones, ...
 
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glpg80 said:
Out of all of the amps you’re looking for I can’t say enough about a mid to late 90’s XTC. Mine isn’t going anywhere - the blue channel boosted is one of the best sounds I’ve got. The cleans are the cleanest I’ve got too - it’s based on the fender deluxe.

After that I recommend the evh el34 stealth but only if you’re a 5150 fan.
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Does the Stealth do well for crunch and mid gain tones? I see mostly high gain metal guys using them.
 
glpg80 said:
Out of all of the amps you’re looking for I can’t say enough about a mid to late 90’s XTC. Mine isn’t going anywhere - the blue channel boosted is one of the best sounds I’ve got. The cleans are the cleanest I’ve got too - it’s based on the fender deluxe.

After that I recommend the evh el34 stealth but only if you’re a 5150 fan.
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I wanted one for the longest time but I figured I would prefer the 20th Anniversary XTC since it's supposed to be an improvement, like the 20th Anniversary Shiva.
 
Incoming wall of text...


About the Axe-Fx:

I have an Axe-Fx III and love it. I cannot say enough good things about it. The Axe-Fx III has, quite literally, taught me 10x more about amps and what I want my guitar tone to be, and what guitar tone can be overall, than anything else I've ever interacted with, up to and including all the forums I've ever read and even amps I've tried personally in music stores.

There is absolutely no substitute for putting something in your own environment, through your own guitar, and turning the knobs yourself so you can listen first hand to what they do. And there is no more extensive, better sounding, easier-to-use collection of top quality amp models than you'll find in an Axe-Fx.

If you haven't found your own "home base" tone (or tones), then there is no better way to do that other than to dive into just about every amp model worth playing so you can try them all out for yourself.



PSGuitar said:
I wanted one for the longest time but I figured I would prefer the 20th Anniversary XTC since it's supposed to be an improvement, like the 20th Anniversary Shiva.
Click to expand...

About Bogners:

Again, I love the Axe-Fx, but the dynamics and expressiveness of the Bogner Ecstasy is one of the few things the Axe-Fx doesn't really do. Maybe a little bit but not quite. It has an Ecstasy 20th amp model in there, and it gets the tone and even the feel mostly right, but not quite the dynamics. The specific, unique way the Ecstasy handles playing dynamics is, in my opinion, the amp's greatest defining feature.

I bought an XTC 101B and I've had it in my studio for most of 2022 and I like it so much that I decided to try out an XTC 20th 6L6 in a local store as well, which I also liked enough to order, and it should get here sometime this month. So although I haven't owned an XTC 20th, I've spent a few hours directly comparing one with a 101B in a store with nobody else in the room.

I'm not selling my 101B (unless maybe I can trade it for a Pandora 101B at some point) and plan to keep both it and the XTC 20th.

I don't know if the XTC 20th is outright better in every area (a lot of people still prefer the 101B's Blue channel as it is slightly higher gain and has a bit more of the Bogner chew and smear in the mids) but I think the 20th is more articulate and more open and natural sounding in the treble and upper harmonics, more Marshally, not quite as compressed as the 101B, and has a better, more modern and open sounding Red channel imo.

The XTC 20th is a bit like taking a 101B and moving it more towards being a Marshall. Whether that makes it better than a standard 101B is entirely up to you. I think the 20th is awesome.
 
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Thanks for the wall of text!

I wish I coild afford an XTC, but maybe one day.

The thing I often hear is that Bogner improved on thr 101B, especially with the clarity of the gain, the loop, etc.

I have not played both so I have no first hand experience.

Good info and thanks for posting!
 
bubucci said:
If You like 'feel' of the Bogner amps, there is no modeller/profiler to get You there.
Click to expand...

Maybe not stock but I shot DI profiles of an Atma into a Kemper and
they came out scary close, having them both side by side to compare.

I've owned a 101B, and while the Atma is not in the same league, it
100% does that chewy grind thing. DI profiles had that too.
 
Thanks Donnie!
Right now I'm having great luck with my Shiva 20th.
I wish my Shiva had an XTC or Uberschall channel.
 
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